Russian special military operation in Ukraine #59

higurashihougi wrote:And as my freedom of speech is also protected here, allow me to say that any calling for genocide against Ukrainian, Amercian, or what ever nation, are completely disgusting and deserved to be condemned as crime against humanity.

If that extends to actions taken in nuclear warfare or thereafter then your sentiment is not only retarded, but dangerous.

ALAMO wrote:Again, as you seems to have an usual problems with getting the clue.
Orders given to the soldiers were pure terrorist.
Spread the panic, kill as many civilians as possible, document, publish.
It is not a military operation, but terrorist one.
If they would have size a school and kill the children - would you call it a legitimate military objective because there is a war ongoing?
There are tons  of vids made by the both sides documenting civilian cars shot point blank, with clearly civilians killed. There was a known case when they shot dead a pregnant girl, in front of the eyes of her husband and little son.
Every war ends some day, and war criminals are being prosecuted.
This wont be different, maybe only in a fact that nobody will prosecute them only eliminate with cold blood.

DRG's are caused terror as long as there has been wars in human kind. It is debatable is it effective way to conduct war, but it is always been part of armed conflicts. Affecting enemy's mental state is one way to disorganize enemy and disperse its resources. Soviet soldiers did that in Finland and finnish did that in Soviet union. There has not been any massacre in Kursk region at least what we know, even though some war crimes has been identified. (Opening fire for civil car killing pregnant woman for example) Whether these were deeds by individuals or collective decision, I don't know. Every man has also possibility not to do, or do, these kind of things and therefore, at the end of the day, individual is responsible his deeds.
Clausewitch pointed in first pages of his book that war is ulimate violence and that should be accepted and no limitation should be considered because if you don't, the opponent will.

mr_hd wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:

mr_hd wrote:So Ukrainian president says about 1000 square km  they are holding right now in Kursk region LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL that is massive, incredible success, far beyond wildest fantasy...basically in 6 days Ukraine cancelled 1year of Russian gains ha ha ha ha, brilliant.

This post needs to be moved to the "Delusional pro-nazi Ukro clown self-pleasuring in public" thread.  Comedy gold.

Admin - If we don't have one, pls create it.  

Yes I think your post is indeed delusional or even more...

Anyway one day is already gone, today is second one (2 are enough according to experts), those first villages near Ukrainian borders will be today fortified... unless Russia does something quick and radical but time window is very narrow. So will Ukraine permanently establish itself on Russian soil?

Fortified? No, the Russians are letting the Ukrainians dig their own graves. Tomorrow is the funeral. Slaw and Baloney, Suck on my Gurkhin

- He knows US is quickly moving to a scenario of hyper inflation. Their debt is now at ~32 Trillion, rapidly rising and is more than 330% of their GDP.
- Zero chance, absolutely zero chance, of recovery here.

Actually over 35 trillion...

I just noticed the net interest on the debt is higher than the US defence budget for the year... so for one year if they spent the entire defence budget on the debt they will have paid the interest for that year...

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

because they think beyond the emotional 'revenge' response and understand the dynamics of the response.

You get it. Emotional responses where revenge masquerades as justice are empty and hollow, and almost never solve the problems.

And if you call for destroy, kill, fast, now, .... then you can quadruple the body count on Russian side as well. Slow is good.

Slow and sure is getting the job done right.

Clausewitch pointed in first pages of his book that war is ulimate violence and that should be accepted and no limitation should be considered because if you don't, the opponent will.

And yet the propaganda war exists in parallel to the actual war, where in the west the nazis of kiev have the enormous advantage of full western support... to the point where nazi shit is ignored and brushed under the table...

Putin has made a statement and he does not often claim to have mispoken and turn 180 degrees on what he has been saying.

Whether the west accepts it or not the Russian government has decided this is an anti terrorist action which changes the rules and eliminates the ideas of a peace treaty with the main enemy protagonists... ie the US and UK and France and Germany... or the US and her bitches.

To add, people are often too emotional or impulsive in their response and (imho) misjudge Putin's composure as a sign of weakness.

It's the opposite. He is an extremely calculated leader that takes into account a full decision tree. Where others say 'kill' he already thinks multiple steps ahead and looks at the bigger picture. That makes him so extremely underrated but people hardly recognize his abilities.

It's probably also the reason why the SU-35 is not in Iranian hands yet. Too much of a risk right now.

I already set out a potential consequence of 'declaring war'. Pros & cons. Putin knows that; what will 'declaring war' provide him with more than he has today.

Interesting helmet recovered from Ukro forces in Kursk.  Given that there are no Ukropi Nazis (cuz the US/EU say so) then I guess this must have belonged to the battalions Chief Electrician?

It breaks my heart to think of this hard working electrical worker having to brave the hazards of hot line work without the benefit of effective PPE.

famschopman wrote:To add, people are often too emotional or impulsive in their response and (imho) misjudge Putin's composure as a sign of weakness.

It's the opposite. He is an extremely calculated leader that takes into account a full decision tree. Where others say 'kill' he already thinks multiple steps ahead and looks at the bigger picture. That makes him so extremely underrated but people hardly recognize his abilities.

It's probably also the reason why the SU-35 is not in Iranian hands yet. Too much of a risk right now.

I already set out a potential consequence of 'declaring war'. Pros & cons. Putin knows that; what will 'declaring war' provide him with more than he has today.

Well Russia/Putin is limited there - 3 years he is claiming there is no war, there is only special operation, you can be fined or put in prison if you say in Russia there is war in Ukraine since it is against main official policy... but Ukraine is using EXACTLY that against him/Russia.

So if Putin now says it is war - he lost already.

Most people do not understand how bit gamble and stakes are here... not only about Ukraine but also about Putin and Russia state too.

Anyway back to the new front in Kursk region - now number of Russian refugees climbed to 120k (from 80k yesterday), 60k more will be evacuated in coming days on precaution. So it is clear this story is not finished yet and is huge.

mr_hd wrote:

famschopman wrote:To add, people are often too emotional or impulsive in their response and (imho) misjudge Putin's composure as a sign of weakness.

It's the opposite. He is an extremely calculated leader that takes into account a full decision tree. Where others say 'kill' he already thinks multiple steps ahead and looks at the bigger picture. That makes him so extremely underrated but people hardly recognize his abilities.

It's probably also the reason why the SU-35 is not in Iranian hands yet. Too much of a risk right now.

I already set out a potential consequence of 'declaring war'. Pros & cons. Putin knows that; what will 'declaring war' provide him with more than he has today.

Well Russia/Putin is limited there - 3 years he is claiming there is no war, there is only special operation, you can be fined or put in prison if you say in Russia there is war in Ukraine since it is against main official policy... but Ukraine is using EXACTLY that against him/Russia.

So if Putin now says it is war - he lost already.

Most people do not understand how bit gamble and stakes are here... not only about Ukraine but also about Putin and Russia state too.

Anyway back to the new front in Kursk region - now number of Russian refugees climbed to 120k (from 80k yesterday), 60k more will be evacuated in coming days on precaution. So it is clear this story is not finished yet and is huge.

they're being evacuated because your buddies are sick fucks who like to commit crimes against humanity. The only thing huge here is the nazi dick that is up your fun hole

mr_hd wrote:
Well Russia/Putin is limited there - 3 years he is claiming there is no war, there is only special operation, you can be fined or put in prison if you say in Russia there is war in Ukraine since it is against main official policy... but Ukraine is using EXACTLY that against him/Russia.

Don't eat shit from a shovel. No one in the Russian Federation was jailed for talking about war.

Putin does not declare war because this is a completely different state of the state economy. Therefore, there will be no breakthroughs to Kyiv. This requires the mobilization of about 600,000 people. But this is minus 600,000 working male hands for the economy. You offer us a sprint, after which we will spit out our lungs. But we are running a marathon.

famschopman wrote:It's probably also the reason why the SU-35 is not in Iranian hands yet. Too much of a risk right now.

Really ? I thought the deal was done ! Just shows how little I know . Anyway I mentioned before a way around this problem : ( 1 ) The mechanics of plane , the Engine and body , are not top secret . The avionics maybe ? Iranians will have to change all that anyway , replace with home made ones . Therefore Russia export version can go to Iran . ( 2 ) By agreement a device installed to disable plane , if pilot divert from path . Russia can have oversight .

Heard electric was hit again in Ukrs ! Retaliation for Zap ? I hope the power output from UKr nuke plants cut ! Why should they still have electric ? Makes no sense to me . Seems nobody listens to me here ! Just the way I like it !

nomadski wrote:
Really ? I thought the deal was done !

Afaik the deal was closed somewhere end of 2023 but no delivery yet. The stories so far shifted from
- Russia needs them right now in Ukraine/Syria and don't have excess stock to deliver them
- Certain details of the deal appeared problematic; related to Iranian demands
- Politics, delivery of SU-35 would put unwanted pressure on Russian relationship with the west; but this has deteriorated rapidly in recent years so I doubt Russia gives a rats ass

I think the stock could be an issue though. Industrial speed is frankly not there (yet) but rapidly improving. Russian doctrine never was never directed at producing offensive capabilities; more towards defensive capabilities. So it would not surprise me the turnaround time for these jets is still relatively high.

There are also some stories of deliveries to Iran in last two weeks; but again, all speculation.

mr_hd wrote:Well Russia/Putin is limited there - 3 years he is claiming there is no war, there is only special operation, you can be fined or put in prison if you say in Russia there is war in Ukraine since it is against main official policy... but Ukraine is using EXACTLY that against him/Russia.

So if Putin now says it is war - he lost already.

Most people do not understand how bit gamble and stakes are here... not only about Ukraine but also about Putin and Russia state too.

Anyway back to the new front in Kursk region - now number of Russian refugees climbed to 120k (from 80k yesterday), 60k more will be evacuated in coming days on precaution. So it is clear this story is not finished yet and is huge.

Been calling it a war all this time yet no-one bothered to put me in prison. Go figure.

Isos wrote:Ukrainians entered a very weakly protected area. They are not holding any positions... they are constantly moving around to dodge bombs and artillery.

This move tried to soften russian attacks in the Donbas by forcing them to send troops from there to Kursk. Which is btw a very desperate move.

This will at best work 2 weeks and the surviving force will retreat quickly to Ukraine. But they lost too much on this and the soldiers' trys is also lost. For all their future offensives they will think they are sent for a certain death for no real and achievable goals.

Which does not justify the grotesque failure of the Russian MoD.
Not seeing the movement is unjustified.

Yup I dont think this is funny anymore, Russia is going to have to trade donbass.

You aren't very smart, thats for sure.

Armchair Warlord
@ArmchairW
The only thing I'd want to add to Mikael's excellent analysis here is that the Russians are actually fighting a much more conventional area defense than we've seen in the very static fighting in the Donbass.

They're not trying to stop Ukrainian drives at the screen line like we saw in the Hundred Days, they're instead diverting them into engagement areas between their front line of screening troops and the main defensive line 5-10km to the rear and destroying them there. Ergo why we've seen Ukrainian units just go on these long runs in the last couple days - way past where the front line should be - and then get wiped out in what look like complex ambushes. That's... actually just how you do a very normal area defense.

Why have the Russians changed tactics? Two reasons. First, in Kursk they - paradoxically - have space to fight. The Donbass is a cramped theater where real estate is at an absolute premium. They're either backing up into the sea, key lines of communication, or critical urban areas there. There's actual operational space in rural Kursk.* Second and relatedly, the "forward" defense we're used to seeing in the Donbass will not inflict crippling casualties on an attacker quickly for the simple reason that attacks often fail in the "cone of fire" in no man's land or even behind the attacker's front line, allowing defeated units to easily withdraw. In a conventional defense the attacker is defeated in a kill zone behind the screen line and it is far easier to annihilate an attacking force. Ergo why we're now seeing huge AFU equipment losses, with entire Ukrainian companies burning out behind the ostensible Russian "front."

Having found themselves in battle with the AFU's strategic reserves, the Russians now very much intend to use the Battle of Sudzha-Korenevo to destroy as much of those reserves as possible. Even if that means scaring some war mappers on the internet.

* I remind the reader that, de jure, there's no difference between Kursk (or any other part of pre-2014 Russia) and the Novorossiyan oblasts in the eyes of the Russian government right now.
https://x.com/ArmchairW/status/1823153110379798958

     About Starlink

    Almost every Ukrainian Armed Forces vehicle has a Starlink satellite Internet kit. The main or backup communication and control system is probably connected to these systems. Through satellite Internet, enemy soldiers not only receive orders, but also, most importantly, receive information about the situation. Coordination of equipment operation is significantly simplified with the availability of suitable software.
    But something went wrong. Starlink does not work in the Kursk region and in the border area of ​​Sumy. At all.
    We find boxes with Starlink in almost every IFV or armored vehicle of the Ukrainian Armed Forces; it is unpacked but not configured.


https://x.com/GeromanAT/status/1823280304246681844

What to do with Ukrainian nuclear terrorism, by Gevorg Mirzayan for VZGLYAD. 08.13.2024.

Neither the IAEA nor other Western-controlled organizations (including the UN) will do anything to rein in Zelensky. We will still have to solve the problem of Ukraine's nuclear terrorism.

We know who we live next to.

With a regime that has set itself the goal of being "not-Russia", which requires becoming anti-Russia and fighting Russia itself to the end, using all means to do so. Which prohibits everything Russian. Including the church (which, in fact, is not so much Russian as Orthodox). Which has divided its citizens (or rather, the people it calls its citizens) into classes. Into the white Ukrainian bone and the Russian-thinking "traitors" who must be destroyed.

We are dealing with a regime that systematically violates all of its commitments. Starting with the February 2014 agreements (on a compromise ending to the Maidan) and ending with Istanbul 2020.

So is it any wonder that Ukraine is carrying out terrorist attacks against the Zaporizhzhya NPP, Europe's largest nuclear power plant? And we are not talking about some rare artillery salvos - no, the Kiev regime knows where to strike. On August 11, it managed to damage one of the reactor's cooling systems - and if the plant were operating now, this would be a direct path to disaster.

The question is how should Russia respond to this?

It is absolutely pointless to appeal to Western countries and organizations. Europe is too blinded by its desire to inflict a strategic defeat on Russia. Partly because it is too intimidated by the consequences of its probable failure. They understand that conscientious Russians will never forget the tanks with crosses on their turrets in the steppes of Zaporozhye, nor the Czech "Vampires", nor the French "Caesars" that were used to shell Belgorod. They will not forget the Polish, American, British and other mercenaries of the Armed Forces of Ukraine who came to Russian soil to rob, rape and kill. They will not forget and will not forgive.

The IAEA won't say anything special either. Where you sit determines your way of thinking, and so neither the IAEA nor other Western-controlled organizations (including the UN) will do anything to rein in Zelensky. At best, they will express concern, and at worst, they will agree with Kiev that the Russians are shelling themselves. Or they will use their presence at the Zaporizhzhya NPP to collect intelligence and other information useful to the Kyiv regime.

There is also little hope for the Global South. China, India, Brazil – none of them will take a tough stance against Ukrainian terrorists. Simply because they do not want to publicly side with Russia. Moscow, of course, is not particularly offended (a number of these countries are privately or semi-publicly helping Russia in the SVO), but nevertheless.

Therefore, Russia can only rely on itself. On its own strength, on its own army, on its own society and on its own government.

There are now calls to use the army to the fullest extent. To deliver a large-scale, crushing blow of retaliation to the Kyiv regime – literally to the regime. To attack the buildings of the Ukrainian presidential administration (why would they need it, since there is no legitimate president in the country?), the General Staff, the Ministry of Defence, etc. To give a clear lesson to those who came to Russian soil to kill and rob, and who are also trying to engage in nuclear terrorism.

The desire is understandable – but why follow the enemy’s lead? Why do what he wants and what he is ready for?

Kyiv has gone to Kursk and is trying to hit the Zaporizhzhya NPP because Russia is winning the war. The current Russian strategy of a war of attrition leaves the Kyiv regime no chance of victory. A month, six months, a year – sooner or later (considering the cumulative effect – sooner rather than later) the regime will collapse. A serious internal political crisis, the result of which will be the collapse of the front in Donbass and defeat in the war. And the only chance for the Kyiv regime to avoid this scenario is to commit some kind of adventure in order to force Moscow to change its strategy to one that will give Ukraine at least some chance of a draw.

And this chance may appear in case of strikes on the government quarter in Kyiv. In this situation, Zelensky (inspired by the footage from Gaza) will stage a real theatrical performance in the capital, in comparison with which Bucha will seem like a children's matinee. And Western media will disperse footage of victims in the Ukrainian capital, forcing Western politicians (who are silent about the atrocities in Gaza) to sublimate all their indignation at Russia. Including through increasing their involvement in the Ukrainian conflict (which Zelensky needs).

Therefore, we must react to terrorist attacks with a cool head and equally cold hands. Continue the war as we are waging it. Systematically destroy the Ukrainian Armed Forces (especially their elite, who came to kill on Kursk land), protect the nuclear power plant, liberate the territories, while simultaneously destroying its energy, industrial facilities, infrastructure - all so that exhaustion occurs as quickly as possible.

We know who we live next to. And we know what to do with him.

https://vz.ru/opinions/2024/8/13/1281901.html