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1 September 1939 when Poland was invaded. 
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Offtopic stuff from the Ukriane war thread1
Mir- Posts : 3644
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The worst thing is that World War III will be even more terrible.
ALAMO- Posts : 7291
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Mir wrote:1 September 1939 when Poland was invaded.
Chinese, Koreans, and Mongolians won't share your point of view bro
Neither Ethiopians
Nor Spaniards
Czechs and Slovaks might have a different opinion, tho ...
And maybe Austrians
Last edited by ALAMO on Sat Jul 27, 2024 7:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 2595
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Off topic, but England at least since XII century was always doing its best to damage every European country.ALAMO wrote:
Edit : and a funny memory for consideration, how the things - all of them - have already happened back in history.
England was sabotaging Polish grain export back in the XV century already.
Funny, isn't it?
And often they aligned and helped countries that should have been their enemies, like aligning with the Turks against the Greeks rebels who wanted freedom from the ottoman empire, or making a coalition against Russia so that Russia could not free Constantinople.
Not to speak about first asking Italian banks in Florence for massive amount of money to conduct a war against France, and then completely reneging the debt. Actually if such debt would be repaid now and counting the interests, the ownership of great Britain and all of their former colonies would not be enough to cover for it.
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ALAMO- Posts : 7291
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Exactly.
They have always played with the No 3 power against No 2 power, to retain No 1 status.
They have always played with the No 3 power against No 2 power, to retain No 1 status.
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Arrow- Posts : 3173
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Everyone wants to maintain their status as a superpower. They managed to maintain their status as number 1 for quite a long time. The same way, the US is doing everything it can to maintain itself. Usually there is no second chance.
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Mir- Posts : 3644
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ALAMO wrote:Mir wrote:1 September 1939 when Poland was invaded.
Chinese, Koreans, and Mongolians won't share your point of view bro
Neither Ethiopians
Nor Spaniards
Czechs and Slovaks might have a different opinion, tho ...
And maybe Austrians
Ok it started in Mesopotamia in 2,700 B.C. between the forces of Sumer and Elam.
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ALAMO- Posts : 7291
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That's my men 
But being serious, this is not just a joke.
From all those perspectives - this date will vary.
Each of those conflicts are in real a part of the very same reshuffle on the chessboard.
Only started at different place and time.
Spanish civil war was a prelude to a global confrontation - exercises before a major conflict.
Japan expansion in Asia was just the same what Germany did in 1938 - expanding as far as they can, using relatively small force, just to be better prepared for incoming.
I can't remember the numbers now, but Manchuria constituted a lions share of Japan coal production and some serious iron and other metals.
Those are all acts of the same script.
As long as we don't realise that - things can get unnoticed.
It is a continuous process.
But being serious, this is not just a joke.
From all those perspectives - this date will vary.
Each of those conflicts are in real a part of the very same reshuffle on the chessboard.
Only started at different place and time.
Spanish civil war was a prelude to a global confrontation - exercises before a major conflict.
Japan expansion in Asia was just the same what Germany did in 1938 - expanding as far as they can, using relatively small force, just to be better prepared for incoming.
I can't remember the numbers now, but Manchuria constituted a lions share of Japan coal production and some serious iron and other metals.
Those are all acts of the same script.
As long as we don't realise that - things can get unnoticed.
It is a continuous process.
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Mir- Posts : 3644
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No excuse for what happened at Katyn. Beira and his NKVD were brutal criminals, but we only have to look at the number of dead from each country to know who suffered the most during WWII. Soviet POW's were systematically and deliberately starved to death by the Nazis. Countless more either died during forced labor, disease or were executed etc. During the fist two years of the war two-thirds of the POW's perished. In the end of the 6 million taken prison more than 3 million died.
All the major players on both sides were guilty of war crimes during WWII. A vast number of these crimes involved millions of civilians. Some of the worst were committed by the Japanese.
All the major players on both sides were guilty of war crimes during WWII. A vast number of these crimes involved millions of civilians. Some of the worst were committed by the Japanese.
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Each of those conflicts are in real a part of the very same reshuffle on the chessboard. Only started at different place and time. wrote:
The worst thing is that now huge changes are coming to the world, read the chessboard, which does not bode well.
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Mir wrote:
All the major players on both sides were guilty of war crimes during WWII. A vast number of these crimes involved millions of civilians. Some of the worst were committed by the Japanese.
It is not about beating each other who was the greatest thug out there.
The point is that there are no innocent, furry rabbits in any war.
We can't make equal what the Germans did, or what the Japanese were capable of - both racial supremacy driven.
But everyone can find some shit behind every other participant's back.
Being objective is rejecting drastic conspiracy theories, ideologically driven bias, and purity syndrome.
Otherwise, we end up with people who deny the mass murder of the Jews. But on the other hand, we must know that the mass murder of Jews was nothing extraordinary. Gypsies were treated the same. Slavs - not much better. Part of the "Jews" who perished - were exterminated not for being Jews, but for being Pole or Russkie.
Or we end up with a denial of mass rapes of the German population by the Soviets. It is a crystal clear and documented issue - their own papers and figures claimed that.
It is stupid to deny.
On the other hand, the French were doing just the same. Possibly even on a wider scale considering the size of the force involved - and keeping in mind that they have not experienced a 5% of the atrocities the Soviets did.
Americans were not raping but created a mass prostitution market having excess goods that were needed by the starving population.
Women heavy, as the Germans lost millions of men. They have created a situation when a solid % of the German civilian population was forced to prostitute.
We should know and notice all of that because only then we can make any sort of objective analysis.
Not decline any of it because of our idee fix.
But still, if someone does - it is not my problem
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Guys, the worst thing is that it seems to me that history is repeating itself again and we have the 1930s. Just as back then the loss of several powers was approaching, so it looks similar now. Currently, it is true that there are nuclear weapons, MAD, etc. Unfortunately, I have the impression that many centers of power in the world, mainly in the West, have stopped even being afraid of nuclear weapons, etc. It was different even during the Cold War, despite the great rivalry, everyone knew how it could end. Of course, back then there were 10 times more nuclear charges. Today it seems that the brakes are starting to give way. Current generations do not know what a great war is. And they probably do not realize how it could end, especially since even the current stockpiles of nuclear weapons can kill hundreds of thousands of people, if not more. I am afraid that the current very big changes in the world may end badly.
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d_taddei2- Posts : 2988
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Mir wrote:The genocide in Cambodia is the worst ever in recent human history but the US turned a blind eye. Only thanks to the movie The Killing Fields some of this came into the mainstream. Pol Pot - leader of The Khmer Rouge movement killed one third of the total male and 25% of the female population in Cambodia - whilst the US and China fully funded and supported him in his war against Vietnam. Between 1975 and 1978, an estimated two million Cambodians died by execution, forced labor, and famine.
Pol Pot's main aim was to wipe out Western influences and set up a solely agrarian society. Cities were evacuated, factories and schools were closed, and currency and private property was abolished. Millions who failed to escape Cambodia were force marched onto rural collective farms.
Anyone believed to be an "intellectual" was immediately killed - even skilled workers. Even worse - anyone caught in possession of eyeglasses, a wristwatch, or any other modern technology like a radio were executed.
I visited the Killing Fields and S-21 genocide centre as well as
Auschwitz and Birkenau, the later was horrific due to the size and scale, however the former was for me far more horrific due to how recent, the methods used and how tourists were asked to pick up any bones they find and place on top of the box near the entrance as they dont have the funds to dig them up I saw and picked up quite a few bits of bone and teeth, and the baby tree which still had hair and dried brain matter in the bark waa also horrific. I can share pics on a different thread. Also went down the chu chi min tunnels in Vietnam.
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sepheronx- Posts : 8760
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Why are we discussing this nonsense here?
We should continue talking about the war.
We should continue talking about the war.
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ucmvulcan- Posts : 1274
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Poor Garry, he is going to have to be relocating lots of posts. Now back to the war. What did the Tus hit the other day? Also what is the significance of Pokrovsk? Also, any breakthroughs in the south?
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I am not upset with you, because I honestly don't care about other people's opinions.
Your numbers were wrong by a tenfold margin.
Glad you are not upset.
The numbers were out but the point remains... even if the numbers were the same or reversed the hate for one and the forgiveness for the other group seems disingenuous... it sounds like you are just using one tragedy to blame one group yet ignore a greater tragedy because you don't seem to want to hate that other group... yet the reality is that the group you want to hate really have nothing to do with Stalin these days, yet Ukrainians seem to continue to embrace and revere that Bandera prick and his cohorts in evil.
You are sending them money and resources and demanding everyone else does the same.
I simply don't understand.
I corrected them, just wondering if those numbers are somehow related to the western (or yours) education or something.
I got used to the fact that people see other problems differently a long time ago - that is why I don't care.
No, I don't think that, or the rest of your post is a fair explanation.
So what these people that murdered Polish people assimilated into the local population to avoid retribution... that does not change the crimes committed, which you mentioned.
Even if Stalin had your entire armed forces executed, that is still not the same as what these Ukrainian nazis did to Poland and the Polish people.
No matter how many Polish people of today used to be Ukrainian the crimes remain and all Poles choosing to focus on the one that seems the lessor of the two whose decision was by Joe Stalin... what did you expect from him exactly?, While ignoring the crimes of men the Ukrainian people openly worship as gods today... well it is rather strange and makes me think the lessor crime was not really a crime if you can ignore and forget the crimes of Bandera and your entire country can support Kiev both politically and economically and militarily I would have to say the suffering was clearly not enough to matter a damn these days because clearly current politics are more important to your people and your government.
Poland was among the greatest empires for a very long time.
When you say stuff like that you sound like a Ukrainian talking about Ukraines history... no disrespect meant... just amusing...
Could probably say the same feelings are probably held in Sweden too I suspect.
Of course history books in the region probably rather better support Polands claims to empire than Kievs...
(which are made up)One wrong does not excuse another. Even if the Poles personally executed every single POW they captured, that still wouldn't make Katyn a right thing.
Mistreatment that leads to the deaths of 40,000 soldiers in captivity (as opposed to on a battlefield) can colour a countries views of another country and lead to different treatment of any prisoners you happen to capture.
Katyn was a bona fide Crime Against Humanity whatever way you look at it.
Crime against humanity?
No.
War crime... yes... one of many in the region over the last few thousand years.
If someone has an issue with finding a difference between POW who died in a camp because of an epidemic, general shortage of supply that was common in a whole state, and miserable condition of some of them versus a directly decided, signed, organized and executed plan to exterminate 22k POWs - it is not my problem.
First of all I would say very convenient numbers are estimated to be in favour of sympathy for one side.... 22K shot in the head in mass graves vs 14-16K who died of neglect in a prison system that did not protect them. 40K also mentioned.
Numbers are so flexible and so easy to play with, but we are not talking about that, we are talking about one crime being the focus of a nation leading to money and resources and weapons and ammo being sent to murder Russian soldiers and Russian citizens today... being killed by people who openly celebrate men... and there was more than just Bandera... who murdered in the most inhuman way even more Polish people than Stalin killed which was your reason for hating the Russians in the first place.
1 September 1939 when Poland was invaded.
It started the day the western powers blamed Germany for WWI and stripped the country of money and colonies and resources and imposed all sorts of sanctions and restrictions on them for a war that was no more their fault as any of the colonial powers that were stealing their territories.
Even New Zealand took half of Samoa and America took the other half of Samoa... which was a German colony before that.
Everyone wants to maintain their status as a superpower.
Not they don't... that is what western countries say when their evil intents are exposed... everyone else is doing the same, or you would be much worse of if xyz was in charge... there is no hierarchy in BRICS... China is not the leader and neither is Russia or India or South Africa or Brazil. The whole point of BRICS is a response to the colonial west with the US in charge and everyone else scrabbling for crumbs.
The worst thing is that now huge changes are coming to the world, read the chessboard, which does not bode well.
The changes are good for everyone... especially the west, because in its current set up the west is controlled by the super rich who are only interested in getting slightly richer at the expensive of all the workers that create that wealth. When the west is broken drastic changes will need to be made and the chances of a much fairer society is possible.
Certainly BRICS is the only real chance the third world has to achieve first world levels of living standards and quality of life.
Will create a new thread for this off topic stuff because it is not bollocks, but not really relevant to this thread either...
ALAMO- Posts : 7291
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GarryB wrote:
Numbers are so flexible and so easy to play with,
Only if someone has a goal in that and is using them as a tool.
Otherwise, those are well known as being a subject of multinational studies.
By common Polish-Russian historical investigator teams.
The number of Polish prisoners executed is known to a single person because it is just what was in the Soviet archives provided to Poland already in 1990. We even have personal details and names.
The number of Soviet POWs who perished is a harder nut to crack because data are incomplete.
We are not even sure about the overall number of POWs, as the number varies in 80-85k range.
A further 25k joined the Polish army or were simply released being anti bolsheviks.
Some of those were POW, some were not, just migrants repatriated from Germany.
This is why the number of perished given by the Polish-Russian investigation committee is 14-16k - it was the best that professional investigation could provide with the use of both countries' archives.
And those were not murdered by an order but died because of epidemics and general shortages.
We need to keep in mind that the Soviet army defeated near Warsaw represented a sad picture - which was one of the reasons for its defeat. Those people already suffered a massive dysentery to begin with.
If someone has a problem accepting those numbers and background - well, it is not my business.
sepheronx- Posts : 8760
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GarryB wrote:stuff moved here.
Can you also clean up Su-34 thread?
Retards: ISOS, Arch and the like, have turned it into some kind of tear bitch fest going based upon made up shit and fake information. Even talking about Wagner and other nonsense.
I would have started suspending these accounts if I was still a moderator.
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Isos- Posts : 11496
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sepheronx wrote:GarryB wrote:
Can you also clean up Su-34 thread?
Retards: ISOS, Arch and the like, have turned it into some kind of tear bitch fest going based upon made up shit and fake information. Even talking about Wagner and other nonsense.
I would have started suspending these accounts if I was still a moderator.
You are free to open your own forum, ban everyone that disagree with you and fap all day at fantasy stories about the su-34.
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Isos wrote:
You are free to open your own forum, ban everyone that disagree with you and fap all day at fantasy stories about the su-34.
Weren't you the one that had wet dreams about the Rafale?
Now you're trying to push 404 propaganda as facts!!!
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Isos- Posts : 11496
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Mir wrote:Isos wrote:
You are free to open your own forum, ban everyone that disagree with you and fap all day at fantasy stories about the su-34.
Weren't you the one that had wet dreams about the Rafale?
Now you're trying to push 404 propaganda as facts!!!
Propaganda
Guess some here don't even beleive their eyes.
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Ukrainian claims for most of their supposed Flanker kills are suspect at best.Isos wrote:Guess some here don't even beleive their eyes.
Russia lost 30 airframes of all Flanker types at worst over a period of three years. And that is if you believe Ukrainian propaganda numbers. That is a year's production. So stop being a pussy about it.
Last edited by lancelot on Sun Jul 28, 2024 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mir- Posts : 3644
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Isos wrote:
Guess some here don't even beleive their eyes.
Ok then show us all these losses that you have seen with your own eyes.
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Isos- Posts : 11496
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Mir wrote:Isos wrote:
Guess some here don't even beleive their eyes.
Ok then show us all these losses that you have seen with your own eyes.
Find them yourself. All the evidences were provided on various twitter accounts and forums.
But don't look on this one, most are like you and will never post a russian loss but just brag how insignificant it is because "russia stong" if it is posted.
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and fap all day at fantasy stories about the su-34.
Perfect description of your own behavior in the Su-34 thread...
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