I can imagine the challenge here is to retaliate against what or who. If radars / defenses were not able to identify and track the cruise missile (flying low, stealth materials, etc.) then it is hard to provide a target your retaliatory weapons. Was it Ukraine? Was it US/UK/France? Was it launched from Ukraine territory or Latvia; Finland perhaps?
The surprising part is not the attack, but apparently causing this explosive chain reaction. The bunkers are far apart and a 'simple' bunker buster would not set of a chain reaction. Even when a bunker buster ignites the explosion underground, with all bunkers connected (open blast doors, someone 'forgot' to close them) would not result in the blast to have such an impact on the other bunkers. The shockwave / other effects would be limited by tunnels and significantly weakened when reaching the other bunkers. You could argue if the bunkers were actually build to those tough standards; the official in charge was already taken into custody for corruption/embezzlement of funds.
Ukrs made one of the few relevant strikes in 2.5 years ...
They propably tried 20 times to hit the depot and failed 19 times. If Russia strikes at 10 NATO depots at least 9 of them will be completely destroyed. Spot the difference.
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famschopman wrote:I can imagine the challenge here is to retaliate against what or who. If radars / defenses were not able to identify and track the cruise missile (flying low, stealth materials, etc.) then it is hard to provide a target your retaliatory weapons. Was it Ukraine? Was it US/UK/France? Was it launched from Ukraine territory or Latvia; Finland perhaps?
You do not have to retaliate to the exact sources of attack. What you should do is retaliation to the targets that is within your reach and the targets that is needed to be eliminated immediately - such as Maidan units on the frontline. Russia is winning on the battlefield and Maidan forces are being hammered to death. Therefore Russia has no need to be provoked by "crossing the red line" rhetoric.
On the other hand, your second parts of the argument (not shown in the quote) is a viable concern. It is essential for Russia to re-check all the loopholes in security and safety to prevent such incidents in the future.
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Russian MoD reporting 2240 Ukrainian casualties over the past 24 hours.
During the day, the losses of the Armed Forces amounted to more than 300 military personnel and 14 armored vehicles, including a tank, two infantry fighting vehicles, an armored personnel carrier and 10 armored combat vehicles, as well as two artillery pieces, a mortar, two electronic warfare stations and seven vehicles. Three pontoon crossings were destroyed.
In total, during the fighting in the Kursk direction, the enemy lost more than 14950 servicemen, 122 tanks, 52 infantry fighting vehicles, 93 armored personnel carriers, 768 armored combat vehicles, 464 vehicles, 109 artillery pieces, 28 multiple rocket launchers, including seven HIMARS and six MLRS manufactured by the United States, eight anti-aircraft launchers missile systems, four transport-loading vehicles, 28 electronic warfare stations, seven counter-battery radars, two air defense radars, 14 units of engineering equipment, Of these, eight engineering barrier vehicles and one UR-77 mine clearance unit.
Hole wrote: They propably tried 20 times to hit the depot and failed 19 times. If Russia strikes at 10 NATO depots at least 9 of them will be completely destroyed. Spot the difference.
It is even better ... Maxar published aftermath photos ...
Most of the storage looks intact. The newly built one clearly avoided a chain detonation, which was the main goal of its construction.
Even some of the old, Soviet era warehouses survived ...
Some of you look funny now, but ...
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It's pretty obvious why certain NATO members don't want to give the Ukraine permission to hit Russia with long range weapons, Russia would likely respond by destroying the factories where these missiles are manufactured and wherever they're stored in Europe, the crybabies can scream article 5 all they want but unless they're willing to fight a full scale nuclear war with Russia then what the hell will they do?
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It's a war. It is obvious that Ukraine can attack Russian territory. The incredible thing is how Russia doesn't wipe them off the map with nuclear weapons. Spend resources and people on something you can do quickly. They don't realize that it is the option to end everything and put a limit on the West.
... edit ... A funny note ... Take a look at how all the bugs treat crawled out for a moment - crawled back when it turned that we have a fukin' hurricane in a bottle. As the explosion was pictures, it turned out that maybe a few out of tens of storage points were affected anyhow ... A silence is the best comment I would say
But wait for round two : how "pathetic" is that after multiple tries, one or two downed drones finally fallen down on anything of relevance
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No kidding! And how do you guess, what are the multiple fires at German MIC complexes? Detonations at ammo depots in Bulgaria? Smoking habit mishandling, right?
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The-thing-next-door wrote: Hit thier industry then.
They are. But limiting access to cheap Russian energy and mineral feedstocks has done multiple times more damage to NATO industry than any kinetic action launched thus far.
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Putin's sentence imposed on NATO, by Javier Benítez for SputnikSpanish. 09.19.2024.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has declared that the use of Western high-precision and long-range weapons against Russia will mean a direct participation of NATO countries in military operations in Ukraine. Something that, he claimed, will significantly change the essence of the conflict and will mean that they will be at war with Russia.
Will the West dare?
Putin's arguments could not be clearer and more true, and he let it be known so that there would be no doubts. "I have already mentioned, and any expert will confirm, both in our country and in the West, that the Ukrainian army is not capable of carrying out [independently] attacks using Moderna Western long-range precision systems. He can't do it. This is only possible with the use of satellite intelligence, which Ukraine does not have. These data are only available on the satellites of the European Union or the United States, that is, on the satellites of NATO," Putin said.
So, the Russian head of state went to the bone: "So it is not a question of allowing, or not, the Ukrainian regime to attack Russia using these weapons, but of deciding whether the NATO countries are directly participating, or not, in the military conflict. If such a decision is taken, it will mean nothing less than the direct participation of NATO countries, the USA, European countries, in the war in Ukraine. This would constitute their direct participation and this, of course, changes the very essence, the very nature of the conflict," he said.
In this sense, for the director of the Spanish Institute of Geopolitics, Juan Aguilar, there is basically nothing new. "NATO has been delivering weapons to Ukraine because it is NATO that is at war. We have said this a thousand times since the signing of the Istanbul peace agreement was prevented in April 2022, it is NATO that is really at war. This is nothing new."
The analyst argues that there is no qualitative change in this scenario. "The thing is that now I think that the Russian government, the Russian General Staff, is sending a very serious message that, if the use of long-range missiles is 'allowed', this will be answered. The answers can be varied," says Aguilar.
"NATO is clear about that. It is losing in the Ukrainian military theater of operations. So, who knows what crazy plans they come up with to try to solve that, because they are losing.
There could be a hypersonic attack, non-nuclear, normal, on a base in Poland, and look at the one that can be mounted. If that happens, what are they going to do? To drop a little bomb on some Russian population? Because they're going to get shot in London. Big Ben is going to stop, it's not going to give the time anymore. I just don't really know what they're thinking. Because Washington looks different. It's there, in Europe. And I think they haven't assumed that maybe bombs are starting to fall on them from some submarine in the middle of the Atlantic [ocean]," Aguilar observes.
It looks as if the above ground storage area, where the ammo is prepared for loading onto trucks/railcars, was the most affected area.
The incredible thing is how Russia doesn't wipe them off the map with nuclear weapons.
Why should Russia damage her own territory?
Wonder if she is into dating old men
Only if you are rich.
They don't have enough ammo in their storage bases to begin with.
Putin: Did you hit the ammo storage? General: Yes. Putin: Why were there no explosions? General: It seems the ammo situation in NATO is worse than we expected.
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Zlatti71 @Zlatti_71 The woman who, at the beginning of the conflict, was proven to have lied about alleged rapes supposedly committed by Russian forces, even against children, eventually admitted to lying and resigned from her position. It seems that this person made a significant amount of money from her lies.
Liudmyla Denisova, who worked as the Ukraine's Ombudsman for Human Rights from 2018 to 2022, is suspected on illegal enrichment and false declaration of more than 42,000,000 hryvnia (about a million USD), the National Agency on Corruption Prevention informed.
The Ukraine's National Police have initiated criminal proceedings.
http://T.me/ukraine_watch
TorbjørnN@metonymo
The vile rape allegations against Russian soldiers were all over the Western headlines. The retraction of the stories barely made small notices. Loads of rape stories, and Bucha as the cresendo
So it looks like the explosion happened at the old part of the facility. Likely just old Soviet stuff in bulk went off. https://x.com/FilippoNer97498/status/1836763550703910940?t=i2dLI3BKO43j_LOy96VKfA&s=19
This wasn't just a mere ammo depot it was a major major ammo depot, this was a strategic loss for the Russians.
The Russians have hit hundreds of Ukrainian ammo dumps... and with Kinzhal and Kh-32 could take out the strongest HATO underground bunkers with ammo storage too... why do you think it is even possible to make an ammo dump that cannot be hit and destroyed?
You can tell by how quiet the Russian govt has been about it.
The Russians are quiet because they are not fucking idiot hot head morons like the US or west... they will be analysing what happened and who was responsible and what their options are to retaliate in a way that does the most damage to their intended target and backfires the least on themselves and their allies.
Unless Russia responds, the next attack will be of similar effect except on an airport or something.
You can't achieve a similar effect against any other target. Ammo dumps blow themselves up... you just need to light the fuse.
Btw Ukraine has every right to strike Russia with any weapons conventional ones that is,
This is war and in war, your territory is 100000 percent legitimate Targets.
While that is true you have to keep in mind a few things... this conflict is already lost for Kiev... Russia is showing enormous restraint and is targeting military only or military related targets and is not trying to hurt the general Ukrainian public the way the west made the enemy civilians suffer.
As Putin said, Kiev has already struck targets deep inside Russia, he distinction he makes is that some targets and some weapons they use they can't use against targets anywhere without HATO advisors doing the targeting for them and providing the target data.
It is this latter fact that means HATO assistance in attacking Russian targets makes HATO a part of the conflict and therefore by your own admission... a legitimate target for Russian long range weapons... and they have a lot more than Kiev does.
Russia is also using shells and weapons from Iran, NK etc to strike Ukraine so hypocritical of Putin to be saying Ukraine can't.
Western claims are just western claims with no evidence to back them up. Russia is not using Chinese or Indian or Iranian or North Korean advisors to target HATO countries... ie hit Kievs supply lines at their source.
If Putin doesn't want Ukraine doing this then defeat them otherwise don't cry when Ukraine carries out a perfectly legit attack
Putin isn't crying... he is warning and it is fantastic that the west remains so stupid as to ignore his warnings because their response is going to be amusing.
Ukraine has every single right, no matter who gives them the weapons and this ain't up for debate its war, if ukriane has no right to use supplied weapons on Russian turf then the Russians have no right to use foreign supplied arms on Ukraine turf
Bugger off SS... New Zealand operated Skyhawks for decades and upgraded them multiple times but when we decided to get rid of them the US said they would decide who we could sell them to and who we couldn't... and they said no to everyone we tried to sell them to.
Ukraine has Zero rights when it comes to US weapons... just the same as India could use American weapons against China but not against Pakistan for a very long time... not sure if that is the case now though.
And here I was insulted and called lots of things when I pointed out an actual failure on russias end.
It is not a Russian failure... it is war... stop crying over every loss and harden the **** up you pussy.
Yes Ukraine has a " right , " to strike Russia .
Those claiming Ukraine has the right to defend itself... it was murdering its own people because of the language they were speaking... it is a criminal organisation that has no rights.
Russia has the right to destroy them, because might makes right. US fighting play book rule number 2.
Typical proxy war.Russia will not take any action against NATO because this is World War III.
Russia is winning... why change tactics now? There are plenty of options for Russia against HATO that don't involve nuclear weapons... it is the west that will struggle to attack targets in Russia without resorting to ballistic nukes.
The British Foreign Secretary called Putin a "fascist" and said that the West should ignore the Kremlin's threats to use nuclear weapons, — The Telegraph (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/09/15/biden-pushes-back-storm-shadows-decision-until-end-of-month/)
Well he is pretty fucking stupid isn't he.... his first statement and his second statement don't make sense... if Putin is a fascist he would love to nuke the west so ignoring Putins threats should be the last thing you would be doing.
What he meant to say but can't is the Putin is a sensible good Christian guy who would see the use of nukes as being suicide so he wont do it.
Lammy here is simply reiterating the sort of rhetoric he has heard in his own cabinet. He's not smart enough to come up with all this by himself. Not that there is nothing particularly smart about such language in the first place. These feral scum with their hatred will strike Russia whether that's sooner or whether that's later. And it may well be sooner.
Wasn't there a rodent called Lammy winks that was pushed up Mr Garrisons boyfriends arse in South Park?
The point is that for Russia this sort of ideological BS coming from Western politicians show that there is no intention for negotiations or peace deals because they are all demonising Putin so how can they negotiate a peace deal with someone they call a fascist and compare with Hitler.
The Brits are the ones who have struggled with Russia for more than four ages, in every direction. The outcome is miserable for them, but as always, in such cases, hurting their ego pushes them to engage in dumb behavior.
There was an interview with a Chinese official that really puts them in their place... he mentioned that a huge percentage of UK imports come from China, but in comparison UK imports to China are negligible, and that while the UK talks about Russia and China all the time as the great monsters of the world, China (and Russia) barely thinks about the UK at all... the UK is simply not relevant to China or Russia most of the time...
This is from a Chinese perspective but you could say the same from the Russian perspective... Russia is an enemy of the UK because the UK makes it an enemy. It needs a boogey man to scare its population and make rules that would be unpopular otherwise...
In case of deep NATO sponsored strikes inside Russia, they can start by vaporizing one UK/US/French military base. Like by launching a nuclear tipped Zircon against Diego Garcia. There are no civilians there.
I still think the US embassy in Kiev is the ideal target... there is no diplomacy going on there, it is all of military and economic significance and should be stopped.
If the west bleats about it being US soil, then mention the Chinese embassy the US hit, or the Iranian embassy in Syria hit by Israel...
Putin has said the essence of the conflict will change if HATO gives permission and support to use long range weapons against Russian targets in Russia.
I would expect this will mean his end game goals will change... if Trump gets elected he will want things over fast so the quickest things he can do is cut off all money and weapons and support to the Ukraine... all the Americans would go home... of course some will stay and keep working and resign because they believe the BS about the Russians are coming.
I rather suspect the shift by the west will lead to Putin deciding that a western proxy cannot be allowed to exist after the conflict so attacking their power and water and transport networks will lead to a massive exodus of civilians to the west... the conflict was about saving the sane Ukrainians from an insane foreign controlled government, but the essence that changes is that many do not want to be saved and now the conflict against HATO overrides the issues of saving Ukrainians from themselves.
This will mean civilian infrastructure can be hit to either get them to overthrow Zelensky or to run to the EU... does not matter which. It also means the future of the Ukraine is likely going to be more like the autonomy they should have been offering the Donbass and Lugansk regions with Russian border controls with HATO countries and limited autonomy for a Ukrainian region cut off from the Black Sea and demilitarised... de westernised... denazified. Neutered.
It will take longer but as was mentioned each new long range weapon has required a buffer zone for Russian territory to be created... so ATACMS means 300km buffer zones are needed until they reach HATO territory, where any attacks from there can be responded to by attacking the capital city with nukes.
Looking at those photos, to the stuff that wasn't damaged wasn't even targeted but what was is completely reduced.
Considering it was only one missile but set off an explosion that massive, doesn't somehow make it a nothing burger.
Frankly all I see are cheerleaders try to use pics to suit their narrative.
Fact is what was lost was a lot of expensive missiles, the Russians arrested some guys so corruption is alive and well.
Their AD failed to intercept a single missile, of this was a saturation attack it would have been understandable. But it wasn't, when you cannot protect critical infrastructure from one missile then you have a massive problem
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franco
Die happy 
The woman who, at the beginning of the conflict, was proven to have lied about alleged rapes supposedly committed by Russian forces, even against children, eventually admitted to lying and resigned from her position. It seems that this person made a significant amount of money from her lies.
