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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Oct 09, 2024 7:44 am

    LMFS wrote:.... Apart from the fact that the remote success possibility already made the attempt worth it, this is what creating a legal case means and now all its key elements are available and richly documented. ...

    There was never any possibility of success, the whole premise is retarded

    Anyone who thought there was either wasn't paying attention or was working for Kiev and anyone who believes it is coping hard

    Russians took the bait like chumps, walked into an obvious trap and got slaughtered just like everyone expected them to



    flamming_python wrote:....
    But if you like me believe that the pocket fuhrer in Kiev and whoever the West will replace him with will keep the war going no matter what - then waiting to capture Kiev later as opposed to going for it now doesn't make sense.

    Kiev is way too big and way too useless to be worth the effort

    There's nothing there worth taking

    It's a massive pigsty for Nazis which Russia would have to babysit again, there's no point going anywhere near it without depopulating it first

    Take useful parts first, leave trash for last


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    Post  PapaDragon Wed Oct 09, 2024 7:49 am

    ALAMO wrote:.....
    Putin decided not to wait for a 3rd attempt, as easy as that.
    After sizing of Mariopol and Azov nest, all things get clear. An operation of attacking Donbas was already at a full swing. And considering the Ukro tactics of cannon fodder, it is clear to me that they would have overwhelmed the republican forces, pushing Russia to intervene anyway.
    But on a different theatre and rules.

    Yes, on Kiev's theatre and rules

    Instead of parking the military in Donbass and waiting for Ukrs to come to the slaughter they chose to forfeit all tactical advantages and walk into the slaughter themselves

    Brilliant stratigery
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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 09, 2024 8:07 am

    It was a "slaughter" only in your head.
    People do die at war, you know.
    They have carried out an extremely successful operation of tiding up enemy forces overwhelming them by a huge margin.
    By the end of March 23, an Ukrainian army trained and equipped for the last 8 years was non-existent.
    A peace agreement was signed.
    Europe was shitting its pants, and US generals were spreading phantasies of Russkie taking a 4mln metropolis "in 3 days" which only presents how dumb they are.
    It took the real masters of the puppets to emerge on the stage to stop the events.
    Which leads to the whole of the world seeing them not as a matter of conspiracy theory, but a grounded fact.

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    Kiko
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    Post  Kiko Wed Oct 09, 2024 8:51 am

    "We'll bluff." The West is scared of Russia's actions in Ukraine, 10.09.2024.

    Mercouris: Russia's successes on the battlefield pose a difficult choice for the West.

    Russia's successes on the battlefield and its refusal to settle the conflict on Kiev's terms are putting the West in front of a difficult choice, British expert Alexander Mercouris said in his YouTube blog.

    "In this case (if Russia does not conduct peace talks. - Ed.), what should we do in the West? We would bluff depending on our choice," the expert shared his opinion.

    According to him, the West will have to choose between escalating the conflict to the point of nuclear war or capitulating to Russia, which is advancing in Ukraine.

    "(In this case. - Ed.) the entire NATO system with Article 5 will be just a fictitious piece of paper," he added.

    After the terrorist attack by the Ukrainian Armed Forces on the Kursk region, Vladimir Putin called it impossible to negotiate with those who strike at civilians and civilian infrastructure or try to create threats to nuclear power facilities. Russian presidential aide Yuri Ushakov later said that Moscow's peace proposals for a Ukrainian settlement, voiced earlier by Putin, have not been cancelled, but there will be no talks with Kiev for now.

    The peace proposals for the settlement of the conflict in Ukraine, proposed by Putin, envisage recognition of the status of Crimea, the DPR , LPR , Kherson and Zaporizhia regions as regions of Russia, consolidation of the non-aligned and non-nuclear status of Ukraine, its demilitarization and denazification, and the lifting of anti-Russian sanctions. Kiev rejected the initiative.

    https://ria.ru/20241007/zapad-1976675399.html

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    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Wed Oct 09, 2024 9:01 am

    Trying to compare the current situation to the one in 2022 is IMHO meaningless.
    At such moment they tried to gain a decisive advantage using the force at their disposal without having to put an excessive strain on the russian society and State.
    They advanced , get some good success for what Crimea and the South Front is concerned, reaching even Kherson.
    After it they were confronted by a fully mobilized Ukraine, something that would not be subdued with only the current Kontratniki force at disposition.
    So they were forced to stop, retire from some fronts and concentrate their own forces in just the main front.
    Also this as not sufficient however as in September/October 2022 they suffered a defeat and were compelled to leave both Kherson and the parts of Kharkhiv region that they had liberated.
    This forced them to recall the Active Reserve, use Wagner and declare full industrial mobilization.
    And, guess what?
    It worked, worked great time , even better than any possible expectation.
    Not just they succeeded into all these endeavours but economy and society flourished because of that, making people even more convinced in favour of the government and the military intervention.
    Now, Russia has way stronger armed forces while both Ukraine than the West has depleted their own reserves without achieving nothing if not failures.
    So, now what would have seemed impossible in the 2022 is now within reach and a sizeable part of Ukraine could be liberated and occupied permanently.
    How much? IMHO the optimum is all the oblast that are on the Dnieper and all the Coastline, so to constitute a puppet state, demilitarized and unrecognized by the West , leaving the rest to costituite a Banderaland to keep indesiderable elements of society outside it, uncapable to do anything due to the massive debt it would have to face without any mean to repay it.
    Take Zaphorizhia in the fall and cross Dnieper in the edge of winter, when it would be frozen.

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    Kiko
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    Post  Kiko Wed Oct 09, 2024 9:31 am

    Zelensky is worse than a hurricane for the White House, by Alexey Nechaev, political scientist, for VZGLYAD. 10.09.2024.

    The crazy activity of Yermak-Zelensky began to further harm not only "strategic stability" but also the Democratic Party's election campaign. Therefore, Biden postponed his visit to Germany, and Zelensky's office announced the cancellation of the second "peace summit" in November.

    "Rammstein" without Joe Biden is the same as a Rammstein concert without Till Lindemann, i.e. a meaningless event. Although the expectations (especially on Bankova Street in Kyiv) were completely different.

    And the situation, as it seems to me, is as follows.

    After the failure of the summit in Switzerland, the Yermak-Zelensky team began preparations for a second summit, but with the participation of Russia – this was the demand of the lion's share of representatives from other countries.

    The Russian representatives, of course, had no intention of going anywhere. Therefore, the task was to lure them out under any pretext.

    The set of prepositions is clear:

    – the operation of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the Kursk region with the seizure of a nuclear power plant, panic-hysteria in the media and unrest in high offices in Moscow;

    – the threat of long-range strikes, the consequences of which could intensify the negative phenomena listed above;

    - Well, and to the Americans, or more precisely to the Democratic Party, they tried to sell this plan as a "successful success" within the framework of the election campaign. This also includes public rhetoric about "there are no more red lines", "forcing Russia" - and all that.

    Moscow responded politely to this by actively advancing in Donbass, crushing the enemy in the Kursk region, announcing changes to the nuclear doctrine, and convincing opponents that it intends to strike where it has not struck before – because the very nature of the conflict may change.

    The White House took the Kremlin's position into account, so the decision on "long-haulers" was either postponed until after the US elections, or the idea was scrapped. But could Yermak, Zelensky and their London advisers agree with this? No.

    That's why Zelensky took the "Victory Plan" to the US, which he didn't show to the citizens of Ukraine, but showed to Joe Biden, Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. Of course, there was no plan there and couldn't have been - where would a non-subjective character get a plan from? Instead, the Americans were shown a list of "wants", to which the US reacted in the traditional way: a couple of buckets of criticism were poured out in the controlled media, and the intention to discuss this list in Germany in the "Rammstein" format was publicly announced.

    It seemed that the main goal of the meeting in Germany, where the leaders of the USA, France and Britain were also invited, was not so much to discuss “long-haul” as:

    – to discuss the “German option” for ending the conflict in Ukraine ( I described the fallacy of this scheme a year ago);

    – and if the topic doesn’t work, then agree on uninterrupted supplies of money and weapons for 2025 in order to continue the conflict in Ukraine, regardless of who becomes the new US president.

    But in the end, Yermak-Zelensky's crazy activity began to do even more harm not only to "strategic stability" but also to the Democratic Party's election campaign. That's why Biden postponed his visit to Germany, and Zelensky's office announced the cancellation of the second "peace summit" in November.

    Biden's reason for canceling his visit to Germany was Hurricane Milton - he supposedly needs to prepare the country to deal with the aftermath of the cataclysm. Old Joe can be understood: a toxic meeting with Zelensky is now much more dangerous for his team than a hurricane, so it's better to stay home.

    https://vz.ru/opinions/2024/10/9/1291531.html

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Oct 09, 2024 9:56 am

    This is just French neocolonialism, they give Ukraine shit weapons but probably no spare parts which means a very short operational life

    It is the gift that keeps on giving though... they get rid of some aircraft they would probably otherwise have to spend money to scrap, they likely keep support parts for their own aircraft or to sell to other customers, this wont be a donation... this will be sold to Kiev for top dollar and most likely over priced... they are hardly going to refuse...   ...but the real kicker is that they are saying this is revenge against Putin for Russian activities in Africa, when Russia didn't do anything except be honest and fair, while the French... well they were French... and treated those Africans like sht, and were bloody useless. An African officer said the French advisors knew less than they already did and had nothing new to teach them, while Russian experts were very effective and useful in helping them improve the standings of their forces and their level of training.

    France will blame Putin and Russia for being kicked out of Africa, but the reality is that they are terrible house guests who offended and upset the locals and stole from them too.

    It should not affect aircraft exports since no one wants old obsolete Mirage-2000 aircraft anymore.

    Exactly. If it gets a kill then it is a bonus and French planes are great, but if it just gets slaughtered... well it was an old aircraft... and the Ukrainian pilots are rubbish... (even though they will likely use merc pilots).

    Plus Russians already tried to get Kiev before and got slaughtered and castrated for their trouble

    Yeah, lets make shit up shall we?

    The Russian forces surrounding Kiev had Zelensky shitting his pants and held a lot of Ukrainian forces away from the front line to provide forces that could fight the Russian forces if needed. As part of the Istanbul agreement the Russians were supposed to withdraw from Kiev, which they did... and the slaughter was all in your head... there was no slaughter... the Russians withdrew as per the agreement and the Ukrainian forces moved forward to occupy the territory they withdrew from... pretending to advance... and claiming victory to the world... to the point that many saps in the west started to really think they could win this on the battlefield.... hahahahaha... that didn't end up biting them in the arse now did it?

    They'll lose the rest of the French colonies worldwide.

    They will, but not because they are offloading their old junk aircraft to Kiev, but because of the way they treat their colonies...


    There was never any possibility of success, the whole premise is retarded

    You are entitled to that opinion, but I really don't understand how you can be so certain.

    Russians took the bait like chumps, walked into an obvious trap and got slaughtered just like everyone expected them to

    Yeah, that explains the millions of Russian soldiers dead... that VDV landing at that airfield got wiped out about a dozen times at least... their casualties were horrendous.... and mostly fictional.

    Kiev is way too big and way too useless to be worth the effort

    There's nothing there worth taking

    Declare all streets and statues etc named for Bandera to be targets... starting in 3 days and watch them change... or maybe add more... who can know how stupid they will be when given the choice.

    Take useful parts first, leave trash for last

    This I agree... liberate the humans and flush the rest.

    Instead of parking the military in Donbass and waiting for Ukrs to come to the slaughter they chose to forfeit all tactical advantages and walk into the slaughter themselves

    Brilliant stratigery

    At that stage the Orcs outnumbered them ten to one... if they had moved to the front line and waited for the orcs to arrive they would have had serious problems and would probably have been overrun in several locations.

    By occupying land near Kiev they scared Zelenksy to stay in his bunker and they kept a lot of orcs across the country defending all sorts of potential alternative targets.

    The withdrawal was part of a peace deal that Zelensky walked back on, but the withdrawal was ordered and not costly at all... and by that time the orcs had started getting long range artillery that would have been a problem to continue holding ground around Kiev.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:10 am

    GarryB wrote:

    At that stage the Orcs outnumbered them ten to one...

    10:1 is an exaggeration, but indeed a 3:1 general ratio existed.

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    Isos
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    Post  Isos Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:12 am

    Exactly. If it gets a kill then it is a bonus and French planes are great, but if it just gets slaughtered... well it was an old aircraft... and the Ukrainian pilots are rubbish... (even though they will likely use merc pilots).

    I doubt there would be any pilot dumb enough to fly it for ukraine.

    Getting a r-37M on the face is a real no go for any pilot with a decent QI and in France I know that military pilots are guys that have the level to go study in engineering schools, those are the best students togather with medecine students.

    But I would very well see the french putting a shitton of sensors and test their Spectra somehow from those Ukrainian Mirages. Specially if the mission consist hitting positions protected by S-400, pantsir and others deep in Crimea. That would be like a real nuclear strike exercise.

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:24 am

    Isos wrote:
    I doubt there would be any pilot dumb enough to fly it for ukraine.

    +1
    You can retrain for a different category of planes relatively easy, enjoying commercial airlines pilot position with a salary of 20k euro a month.
    One must be either dumb or dumber to join the ranks of airforces that are just being decimated without any serious chance for doing anything.
    The only group I can name would be ideologically driven, or some madman who wants to "prove" himself. And I guess that the reservoir of those is already gone.

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    Post  Arrow Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:44 am

    There aren't many people willing to try to fight the world's largest AD and the second largest air force? It's one thing to saturate AD with drones and Storm Shadow missiles, and another thing to operate with aircraft in direct contact with such strong AD. Only attack with cruise missiles from a long distance.

    Have you noticed that the Wunderwaffe F 16 has become very quiet?

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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:51 am

    Arrow wrote:There aren't many people willing to try to fight the world's largest AD and the second largest air force? It's one thing to saturate AD with drones and Storm Shadow missiles, and another thing to operate with aircraft in direct contact with such strong AD. Only attack with cruise missiles from a long distance.
    Bingo, and I take that as incontravertible proof that the NATOstani faggots are fully aware that their much-vaunted "superior technology" is just so much hot air. If stealthy warbirds like the Fail-35 were truly able to elude Russian IADS then they would be probing the edges of the warzone accordingly. They're not, and this demonstrates their lack of confidence in their public masturbatory assertions  Razz

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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:56 am

    Arrow wrote:Have you noticed that the Wunderwaffe F 16 has become very quiet?
    Death has a way of doing that. Not much PR to be gained by showing images of destroyed jets, it tends to undermine their concerted propaganda, LM sales pitch, and harms future sales.

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Oct 09, 2024 12:01 pm

    There are news about new Kiznhal visiting Konstantinovka and this second one, Staro... something, every few days Laughing

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    Post  Arrow Wed Oct 09, 2024 12:43 pm

    r. If stealthy warbirds like the Fail-35 were truly able to elude Russian IADS then they would be probing the edges of the warzone accordingly. wrote:

    Israel also does not fly its F-35s over Syria, where the AD is much weaker than Russia's. It seems that the air force does not fare very well against modern IADS. The only thing that can defeat IADS is a massive attack by ballistic missiles or very modern cruise missiles.
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    Post  Arrow Wed Oct 09, 2024 3:56 pm

    By the end of March 23, an Ukrainian army trained and equipped for the last 8 years was non-existent. A peace agreement was signed. wrote:

    Their army existed and was becoming increasingly stronger. They had already begun mobilizing before the war. The peace talks themselves were exceptionally beneficial for Ukraine. The Russians only wanted recognition of Crimea, and a neutral Ukraine, and probably some autonomy for Donbas. If Ukraine had agreed to this and Russia had withdrawn from Ukrainian territories except for Crimea, they would probably have quickly broken these agreements and Russia would have been in a much worse position. However, if the Ukrainian army had already been defeated at the end of March, after the collapse of the talks in Istanbul, the Russian army would have launched a very rapid offensive in all directions and in Donbas. However, this did not happen. Ukraine quickly regained its strength and was able to defend itself, then, as you know, Western weapons, Soviet weapons from the PW countries, etc. Either way, the turn of events after April 2022 did not look like the Ukrainian army had fallen and been defeated. In the initial phase of the war, Russia occupied a huge territory of Ukraine, it was difficult to maintain it, especially since they attacked with much smaller forces.
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    Post  Arrow Wed Oct 09, 2024 4:13 pm

    Bye Bye Patriot Very Happy

    https://comments.lostarmour.info/api/v1/picture/telegram_9b4ecf1627256e7d3ec6599a1fa884cf49f72cee/cs3ai1sigdgommuq4ks0


    https://t.me/frontow/36730

    The war in Ukraine or the conflict in the Middle East shows that the best way to destroy AD systems is with ballistic missiles or hypersonic cruise missiles. Of course, you also need to have good reconnaissance and know where the systems are currently deployed. The short reaction time of the Iskander flight solves the problem.

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Oct 09, 2024 5:07 pm

    Arrow wrote:Bye Bye Patriot Very Happy

    https://comments.lostarmour.info/api/v1/picture/telegram_9b4ecf1627256e7d3ec6599a1fa884cf49f72cee/cs3ai1sigdgommuq4ks0
    .


    MOSCOW, 9 Oct — RIA Novosti. The Iskander-M operational-tactical complex destroyed the Patriot anti-aircraft missile system and the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the Dnipropetrovsk region, according to a statement from the Russian Defense Ministry.
    "The Iskander-M OTRK crew carried out missile strikes on the position of the Patriot SAM division in the area of ​​the settlement of Pashena Balka in the Dnipropetrovsk region. As a result, the AN/MPQ-65 multifunctional radar station, the AN/MSQ-104 combat control cabin, the Patriot SAM launcher and the personnel of the Ukrainian Armed Forces' anti-aircraft missile division were destroyed," the department reported.

    https://ria.ru/20241009/svo-1977272684.html

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    Post  Kiko Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:24 pm

    NATO and Zelensky's plans were swept away by a hurricane, by Dmitry Bavyrin for VZGLYAD. 10.09.2024.

    The scenario for ending the conflict in Ukraine, according to which Kyiv would be accepted into NATO, has been postponed until better times, although it threatened to become the US action plan for the near future. The "historic summit" in Germany, where a decision on this issue was to be made, was disrupted due to the absence of US President Joe Biden. The formal reason is Hurricane Milton. In reality, everything is more complicated.

    The West's plans regarding Russia and Ukraine have been interfered with by the heavenly chancellery itself. Due to Hurricane Milton, which will hit the US East Coast tonight, President Joe Biden has cancelled his trip to Germany. As a result, the summit, which some media outlets have already called "historic", has been postponed indefinitely. At it, the leaders of the US, Britain, France and Germany, in the presence of Volodymyr Zelensky, were to discuss two issues: inviting Ukraine to NATO and a new scenario for freezing the conflict.

    Zelensky himself expected that the main topic of the meeting would be his “victory plan ,” consisting half of (hypothetical) gifts for Kiev and half of new sanctions and challenges against Russia. However, this plan did not arouse any enthusiasm in the Biden administration . Now, a certain “Minsk-3” is on the agenda, implying Ukraine’s rejection of the idea of ​​regaining lost territories by military means and incorporating its remains into the North Atlantic Alliance.

    It didn't work out either. And the intervention of the divine office is only one of the versions of why it didn't work out. But it's the most convenient version for Joe Biden.

    In principle, everything is very serious. Milton was even considered to be a category six storm, although there are only five of them. As it approached Florida (and after Biden refused to go), the category was lowered from the highest, fifth, to fourth, but the issue here is not the power of the elements. The issue is the upcoming presidential elections .

    More recently, a weaker hurricane, Helena, killed more than 200 people and battered Georgia, where 90% of households lost power, and North Carolina, both of which are “key” states in this election, and Trump has used the storm to his advantage.

    Trump went to North Carolina and accused the authorities of giving a few hundred dollars to Americans who lost their homes, sending billions to other countries. It is clear that Ukraine was primarily meant, but his rival Kamala Harris, who arrived in the affected state after Trump, surprisingly untimely announced the allocation of $150 million to Lebanon (which suffered, let us recall, from the bombing of Israel, whose ally is the United States itself).

    Fuel was added to the fire of discontent by the voids found in the funds intended for the elimination of the consequences of natural disasters. According to the conspiracy theory spread by the "Trumpists", this money also went to Kyiv, which does not particularly seem to be true, but it is not worth dissuading them.

    The situation has given rise to a wave of caricatures in which Biden provides for others from the budget and is indifferent to the suffering of his own – those very taxpayers, the source of budget money.


    A joke video has gained millions of views, in which residents of Georgia and North Carolina are offered to buy a Zelensky mask so that Biden will help them.


    In general, “Milton” is a really good reason for the president not to leave the United States these days, not to send Kamala to Germany instead of himself, and not to give Zelensky anything now, because this is grist to Trump’s mill.

    At the same time, President Biden is in a state that in itself can explain his absence from work. That is, the trip could have been cancelled simply because the head of state is having “bad days,” and the hurricane is a secondary pretext, despite the importance of this event for the United States.

    But there is a nuance that prevents the explanation from being so simple.

    Secretary of State Antony Blinken is in good health and could well replace Biden in Germany. American political scientists initially assumed so. After all, the summit could have been limited to a more general discussion of the issue and postponed the adoption of important decisions if it was so important for Biden to attend in person, and not through a representative or via video link. This would certainly not have suited Zelensky, but it would have suited Olaf Scholz, Keir Starmer and Emmanuel Macron, who did not find themselves in the trash heap and tailored their complex schedules to the event.

    However, despite the fact that Blinken's job is foreign policy, and no one would have presented him with a charge for being absent from his homeland during Milton's dark hour, the State Department specifically clarified that their boss would not be flying to Germany either. A few hours later, the summit was finally cancelled (formally, it was postponed, but without specifying a new date).

    So Biden wanted the event to be cancelled, and why he wanted it that way is the most interesting question.


    Perhaps the answer to it is, on the contrary, boring and has already been given above: the interests of Kamala Harris's election campaign require that the president now stay close to home and away from Zelensky.

    And Zelensky himself, in such conditions, has been advised to strengthen and hold on – to wait for the November elections and hope that Donald Trump does not win them, because his team does not yet want to give in to Kiev on the issue of NATO membership.

    If Harris wins, then it will be possible to return to “plan B”, that is, to freeze the conflict while simultaneously accepting Kiev into NATO after new presidential elections in Ukraine (in order to conclude any agreements with Russia, Zelensky needs to regain legitimacy).

    There are no prospects for a return to “plan A” (that is, Zelensky’s “victory plan,” consisting of “wants”) – the Ukrainian Armed Forces are in too unfavorable a position for this. Although the promise to fulfill some of Zelensky’s “wants” (for example, to lift restrictions on long-range strikes against the Russian Federation) is certainly seen by the West as a way to blackmail Russia in order to force it to “plan B.”

    It is possible that there will be no return to “Plan B” either, although the new NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte is bending over backwards to show how much he wants to implement this plan. Because it has been recognized in advance as unviable, and all talk about it is a way to drag out time at least until the elections or until the moment when the cornered Zelensky becomes more accommodating.

    It is reasonable to assume that through those channels of communication with the US that are still working and were used, for example, when discussing the issue of “long-distance trucking,” Russia conveyed that no scenario that implies Ukraine’s entry into NATO has a chance of being implemented, because Moscow will never agree to it .

    This has been said many times, the very beginning of the SVO became a guarantee of this, and the completion of the special operation, as stated by Russian President Vladimir Putin, is possible only on the basis of the so-called Istanbul agreements of the spring of 2022, where the first and main point is the neutral status of Ukraine.

    If, as part of blackmailing Moscow, NATO wants to give Zelensky permission for long-range strikes against the Russian Federation, this brings us back to why Zelensky has not yet received this permission: the Americans are afraid of the response Russia has announced . The circle is closed.

    It seems that the meaning of the West's tossing and turning on the Ukrainian track now boils down to the hope that the problem (which the West has brought to such a dangerous state that once a month the prospect of a nuclear war is widely discussed) will resolve itself over time, and Washington will simply record the result and count the profits. But this is only possible if the Ukrainian authorities (whoever they may be) find common sense somewhere in the face of an inevitable military catastrophe.

    Only the Russian army can ensure this catastrophe for them. So the circle is closed again.

    https://vz.ru/politics/2024/10/9/1291451.html

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    ucmvulcan
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 26 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  ucmvulcan Wed Oct 09, 2024 7:56 pm

    flamming_python wrote:

    Russia didn't try to get Kiev before. It was just part of a 'cunning plan' drawn up by either our military heads or our political strategists that ended with a withdrawal, an abandoned peace negotiation process, an upsurge to Ukrainian morale over a phantom victory, and being accused of a massacre in Bucha for our trouble.

    Anyway what it really boils down to is whether you think the war can end before Kiev is taken, or not.

    If it can end, then yes taking some Dnepropetrovsk and Odessa or whatever has some logic to it as then the Ukraine and West can be presented with a fait accompli once Russian forces have dug in along the Dnepr and taken over the Ukrainian coastline. Of course this is still a bigger ask than capturing Kiev.

    But if you like me believe that the pocket fuhrer in Kiev and whoever the West will replace him with will keep the war going no matter what - then waiting to capture Kiev later as opposed to going for it now doesn't make sense.

    Python, what does Russia get from taking Kiev? If they go for Kiev right now, the Ukrainian army will melt back into the city and give us the type of high casualty guerilla war that NATO has been wanting since 2014. Now this doesn't mean Kiev should be left alone. I would reduce all of its government buildings, military bases, energy infrastructure, railroads, airports, and other transport infrastructure, and its factories to char and rubble. Same for Lvov, and other major strongholds of the Nazi Banderites. However, I would not commit troops to the city. Letting the Ukrotrash keep Kiev means they have to defend it and in defending it they have to keep 100,000 troops that they could use elsewhere. Oh sure, I'd soften those troops up with bombing and airstrikes because nobody wearing a NATO, Merc, or Ukrainian uniform should feel safe anywhere in that country, but I'd keep them there with the threat of invasion always over their heads.

    Also, taking out Cocainsky is meaningless. He is not sovereign over his country. All their domestic, foreign, and military policy is made in Washington, London, Brussels, Paris, Warsaw, and Berlin. The best outcome in the war is to have a true popular revolution that out maidans Maidan. Grind down the flower of Ukraine's adult male population, turn the country into an even worse third world shit hole, and soon the people there will Ceausescu the crackhead the west installed. Russia wants peace on its terms, NATO has already started at least expressing that they would not be against a land for peace deal (Russia needs to take considerably more land, at least to the Dniepr and Odessa before starting any such deal), and I strongly suspect that the Ukrainian people, though terrified of the "pro democratic" secret police are getting very tired of Cocainsky and co and want peace. You take Kiev and you get a guerilla war. Paradoxically, if you let the Ukrainian people take Kiev and you get peace.

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Wed Oct 09, 2024 9:21 pm

    Russia got nuked again.

    In response God unleashes another massive hurricane on America.

    **** you satan Twisted Evil
    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:33 pm

    What the **** are you even talking about?

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Thu Oct 10, 2024 3:12 am

    sepheronx wrote:What the **** are you even talking about?
    Explosion at an ammo dump in Karachev. Complete with radio isotope spike caught by a monitoring station hours after the initial earthquake.
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    Post  Sujoy Thu Oct 10, 2024 7:58 am

    PAC-3 completely failed to intercept Iskanders in Ukraine as revealed by the video released yesterday.

    Imagine if Iran had Iskanders. Israel wouldn't even contemplate attacking Iran. A combination of Iskander and S-300 would have given Iran a massive advantage.

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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61 - Page 26 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #61

    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:18 am

    10:1 is an exaggeration, but indeed a 3:1 general ratio existed.

    The force the Russians attacked with might have been 120K... of which a large portion are non fighting support personnel... the orcs had HATO trainers and probably very close to a half million man army that they have been feeding more and more men into for three years... it would be closer to 10:1 than 3:1.

    PAC-3 completely failed to intercept Iskanders in Ukraine as revealed by the video released yesterday.

    One of the primary roles of Iskander is to defeat enemy air defences, including HAWK and Patriot and THAAD batteries... that is why it is not a ballistic missile and also why it has jammers and decoys and other pen aids.

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