The Situation in the Ukraine. #21

Erk wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Painful realisation of facts, frustrated projection of insecurities on object of your hatred, feverish fantasies and wishful thinking...this article in a nutshell...

Or you could even call it seven stages of grief in reverse.

I hate to link or even click on Business Insider but I make exception now because their tears are so sweet and delicious, yummy, yummy!!!


''Putin has already won his war in Ukraine''

http://www.businessinsider.com/putin-has-already-won-his-war-in-ukraine-2015-9


So delicious...

Almost every line is full of propaganda, like Putin instigated a " pro-Russian rebellion in the Donbas region"

That doesn't matter, in fact the more they 'puff up' the Russian actions the better in a way as it makes their strategy look even better.

Khepesh wrote:Head of the Investigative Committee of Russia, Alexander Bastrykin, has discovered that Yatsenyuk was active in Chechnya during the first war while fighting with UNA-UNSO for Dudayev. He is alleged to have been involved in fighting against Russian forces in Grozny over the winter of 94/95 and of torturing and killing Russian POW. I presume that if a drone was sent over Kiev to kill him that the west, in particular the UK, will not object. Yesterday the UK said it was legal for them to use a drone to kill two members of IS in Syria as it was "self defence" against men who wanted to attack UK. The fact that they have engaged in an illegal act of undeclared war against Syria seems to have escaped them. However, the case against Yatsenyuk is even stronger as he was illegally on RF territory engaged in killing soldiers of RF and is now part of an illegal junta killing civilians in Ukraine. Send the drone now and laugh when UK screams "murder" "illegal" "international law" bla bla bla    
The part about Yatsenyuk is at the very end of this article  http://www.rg.ru/2015/09/08/bastrikin-site.html
Edit: Yats would have been 20/21 at the time, so old enough.

This is very interesting. I saw some of this on facebook today.

I've thought there was something in his past, but I couldn't find it. I also looked for any information about his parents' pasts and couldn't find anything there either.

In English

Yatsenyuk fought in Chechnya - Russia’s Investigative Committee
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/1120173-yatsenyuk-fought-in-chechnya-russias-investigative-committee.html



Ukraine's current Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk used to fight in Chechnya against Russia, according to Aleksandr Bastrykin, head of Russia’s Investigative Committee, reports Ukrainska Pravda citing the Russian newspaper Rossiyskaya Gazeta.
Bastrykin claims Yatsenyuk was part of punitive groups / etoonda.livejournal.com


The Russian investigators have questions to the Ukrainian citizens Dmytro Korchinsky, Ihor Mazur, Valery Bobrovich of the UNA-UNSO, the leader of the Right Sector Dmytro Yarosh, the leader of the Svoboda Party Oleh Tiahnybok and his brother Andriy in connection with the war in Chechnya in 1994-1995, according to Bastrykin’s interview with Rossiyskaya Gazeta, Ukrainska Pravda reported.

"The investigation also found that at the time, Arseniy Yatsenyuk fought by their side against the Russian military as part of Argo punitive group, and later - Viking, led by Oleksandr Muzychko," said Bastrykin.

"According to the investigation, Yatsenyuk took part in at least two of the armed confrontations that took place on December 31, 1994, on the Minutka square in Grozny and in February, 1995, outside the city hospital 9 in Grozny; as well as in torture and executions of prisoners," he said.

In addition, Bastrykin says that Yatsenyuk was conferred Honor of the Nation Dzhohar Dudayev’s highest Honor of the Nation title in December, 1995.

"In early 1995, Arseniy Yatsenyuk returned to Ukraine via Georgia with a group of journalists. Later, he was repeatedly seen at conventions and other events of UNA-UNSO in Kyiv," said Bastrykin.

According to the official biography of Arseniy Yatsenyuk, in 1995, he had studied law at the University of Chernivtsi.

Poroshenko is just crazy.

I'm actively working on a plan "B"

http://etoonda.livejournal.com/1554365.html

Sep. 7th, 2015 at 11:31 AM


Ukrainian president named three options to resolve the conflict in the Donbass.



Poroshenko fantasized on the air about the occurrence of Ukrainian troops in Moscow. Radical surgery is an integral part of one of the three options to resolve the conflict in the Donbass. The most acceptable for Kiev is still a way to fulfill the Minsk Agreement.

(Collapse)
- There are three scenarios.

The first - radical attack of the armed forces, the military liberation of these territories and the march on Moscow. Please look at the effects of these exemptions adventurous and irresponsible, and the people do not support this position.

The position of the second - to build a wall, to give part of the territory, living without Donbass. Is it feasible? Possible. But I, as president, Ukraine will not sell ... No one piece of the Ukrainian land, I will not give - said in an interview Poroshenko on the air "on Channel 5," the evening of 6 of September.

Compliance with the Minsk agreements with the gradual withdrawal of equipment Poroshenko believes the most likely way to solve the crisis, but it calls on Ukraine to be ready for "any development of the situation." One of the threats to the execution of the agreements, which will lead to the breakdown of the ceasefire, Poroshenko considers coming local elections in the DNI and LC.

President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko said that if in the Donbass elections will be held, it would mean Russia's refusal to Minsk agreements.

"If the elections will be held feykovye, if disrupted the ceasefire and will be organized large-scale attack ... it will mean that Russia has abandoned the commitments it undertook by signing the Russian president at the Minsk process," - said Poroshenko.

Also, the Ukrainian president said that is developing a contingency plan to resolve the conflict in the Donbass. He noted that Ukraine remains committed to the Minsk Agreement.

"I am now actively working on a plan" B ", without losing hope that will be able to keep the peace and sovereignty" - said Poroshenko.

Earlier, the Ukrainian president said the confidence that the constitutional amendments on decentralization can help in the return of the territories under the control of Kiev Donbass through diplomatic channels.

JohninMK wrote:

franco wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Painful realisation of facts, frustrated projection of insecurities on object of your hatred, feverish fantasies and wishful thinking...this article in a nutshell...

Or you could even call it seven stages of grief in reverse.

I hate to link or even click on Business Insider but I make exception now because their tears are so sweet and delicious, yummy, yummy!!!


''Putin has already won his war in Ukraine''

http://www.businessinsider.com/putin-has-already-won-his-war-in-ukraine-2015-9


So delicious...

Ignore that it came from Business Insider, this was originally in the Washington Post, real US MSM, which makes its opinion much more interesting and potentially influential. The US has many more problems on its plate that are higher priority than Ukraine.

The author is also a member of the Atlantic Council.

Thanks, that is even more interesting. The Atlantic Council is rumoured to have serious influence.

Not everything that comes from western media is lies.. only 95% of it. the other 5% is true
when it becomes very obvious to everyone is true and there is no point hiding it.  The Major
Miscalculations of American Government in Ukraine that they did not predicted was
that Russia reversed the proxy war towards Them.  For the whole Europe vs Russia and total Russia economy isolation plan to work.. it was necessary to create conditions for Russia fight Ukraine in an open war and even fight/attack other eastern NATO countries. in defense of their nation and provoke Russia to kill many Ukrainians..the more the better ,So to make it impossible for Russia to ever restore relations with them. The US Government simply wanted to repeat the Soviet vs Afgan war..where Russia was locked for 10 years invasion ,that destroyed its economy.. The Ukrainian War = is an Economic War against Russia.. nothing more and nothing less with the bonus that after Russia economy collapse (because of the war with Ukraine) then Russian unrest will remove Putin from Power and or with some luck encourage civil wars in Chechenia and other Russian republics demanding Independence.  Ukraine war is a 100% proxy war against Russia. and have nothing to do with Ukraine.. but with Americans wanting to get Rid of Russia from the world map.

But..  Russia did the right things at the right time..
1)They took Crimea quickly without firing a single shot ,peacefully.. taking advantage of the power void in Kiev and that totally eliminated the need of Russia to go into a war with Ukraine
which was the main requirement for Americans plans of Isolation of Russia to work.
2)Then Russia began to encourage unrest in Pro Russian cities , by their support of any calls for autonomy ,and supply help to Eastern Ukraine with weapons and or volunteers to keep Busy Kiev on trying to re-take those zones.  So this will destroy the economy of Ukraine making it more difficult for Americans to influence Ukraine into Europe or their Orbit.. Since nobody in Europe will want to carry Ukraine economy with their own budget. Who in Europe wants to pay a tax to help Ukraine ,to allow Ukraine economy not collapse and they continue bombing civilians women and children? So effectively Russia created the conditions to totally destroy Ukraine economy IF they continue seeking to solve things militarily.
3) And the final nail in the coffin to Americans Proxy war..Was trying to get the Support
of most of Europe into a peaceful solution and Minsk-2... Putin did something really smart.. he cooked Minsk-2 , with France and Germany with the support of most europe and later made it official through United NAtions.. so Minsk-2 is an international law. So Ukraine neither Americans can avoid it.. as long of Europeans stand firm that it have to be implemented and there is no option to avoid it.

But is not all over yet.. is a bit early to claim total victory. US can still provoke Russia into a war
through transnistria and Moldova help.. that will force Russia to invade Ukraine to defend their peace forces there. But Europeans understand is all a script to provoke Russia into a war.. so they will know how to resist Americans policy to split Russia from Europe.

So Russia effectively..
1)Shutdown americans ability to provoke Russia into a war with Ukraine using Crimea.
2)Shutdown americans ability to provoke Russia into a war with Ukraine for eastern ukraine (minsk-2)
3)and keep officially locked Ukraine into a frozen conflict that will slowly bleed Ukraine economy
into total collapse.. making it next to impossible for US to continue controlling ukraine.  
4)and finally not the least.. Putin keep always a good image in the world , not allowing the
Americans to damage Russia world image or allow them to divide its society.

In the long run Ukraine will need a LOT of help of Russia to continue to exist ,so it will be impossible for Ukraine to end Russia influence in their country and its policies. Just recently
Poroshenko asked G7 countries to help them buy GAS from Russia for this winter. you cannot
RUn a country when you not even have money to keep people warm in winter. And the more time pass the more poor Ukraine will be...and the more it will depend on Russia..and the more difficult it will be for them to continue with their war... so time is on the side of Russia in Ukraine conflict. There will be troubles.. but in 5 to 10 years Ukraine will be a totally different nation of today.. if it manage to not disband and continue to exist. And it will be friendly to Russia. officially ,over long run (5-10 years) Russia already won the war. Americans however
still have the option to cause more troubles to Russia however before they lose control of Ukraine as it will happen. Is not an IF .. but when.  Americans will lose the control of Ukraine ,sooner or later it will. they will be unable to finance Ukraine forever and keep the nation united
with so repressive fascist government and so poor economy.

So essentially if this was a chess game.. it will be a Checkmate move of Putin on Obama..



With Putin controlling the white pieces..
Americans cannot win in Ukraine , impossible to win.. is a checkmate move...all they can do is smash the table of chess in protest that Russia cheated..

So while the Ukraine war is lost.. Americans still can do damage to Russia for their loss.
it can start destroying ukraine completely so later Russia will have to deal with 40 millions refugees is economic war after all. but that will allow Russia to easily restore in no time democracy in Ukraine and even turn it into a puppet state. it can provoke a full scale war for example by installing right sector in power.. and ask them to do anything crazy like bombing Crimea or starting a war against Russia..or destroy ukraine nuclear reactors. again to make it more costly for Russia to do humanitarian help in Ukraine.  but that will only discredit Ukraine more and the americans too who sponsor them in the international community. Americans face a major risk of totally losing it European Influence if do something stupid in Ukraine.. it can provoke the opposite of what they intended and that is get Europe and Russia into an economic alliance. and many europeans countries in protest for american illegal policies leave NATO. And this is the awesomeness of Minsk-2 and Russia cooperation with Europe to solve Ukraine conflict. Russia constructive approach to Ukraine Conflict have created The possibility to really hurt US - Europeans  relations and promote Russia into closer relations too with Europe and create a new model for the future , for solving world conflicts.. with Americans Government not being consulted at all for anything. Essentially losing their leadership status in the world .This is not good for US imperialism.. it promotes resistance and dissobedience to their Geopolitical interest. and to totally ignore them.  Not good for the west.  

So really this ukraine conflict is really interesting.. like a drama movie.. you know the American
Government temptation to continue fueling the violence is there..but every month that pass ,US risk a major rebellion against their authority in the world ,and becoming isolated and  even turning Europe into Russia orbit.. if they really annoy them too much and push too much.  
Anyone remembers germany calls for an European Army to defend European interest?

Why would Germany call for a new Army to defend their interest? because NATO is no longer representing Europe interest but Americans ones.  The calls for rebellion are already there.. and Americans every month that pass and keep fueling Ukraine conflict is risking a major break in relations with most of Europe including Germany and France.. Just yesterday France was doing 180 degrees change in their policies in Syria and saying for example it will be a mistake to get rid of Assad and the the international community needs to work with Syria to solve that conflict.
Naturally this is nothing but awesome news for Russia ,to see major division between US and Europe ,Americans are facing major opposition to their policies in Europe that will only get worse. .

In more news.. Russia that was supposed to be "isolated from Europe".. their music military international festival was all a success. Important NATO countries attended.. even Japan and Italy was there.    

event start at 15:00



You cannot underestimate such events.. is not just music festival ,this shows Americans failure in trying to split Europe from Russia. this is the kind of events and activities that Russia Gov needs to counter American propaganda of Russia being a hostile nation ,a nation of repression ,a third world country isolated from the world and Russia in ruins and its people suffering Putin Policies. Watch the long lines for bread in moscow...  

It will be really worrying and embarrassing for western Neocons if after the success of this event.. next year the entire world participate and they and a few other of its Rusophobic puppets.. ie.. Canada /Poland/LItuane do not participate. Is there something embarrassing
and shameful for American exceptionalism , is to being seen as Totally Irrelevant Nation in international politics and no longer leading anything ,or being part of any event where its allies are invited and they not.

Cowboy's daughter wrote:

This is very interesting. I saw some of this on facebook today.

I've thought there was something in his past, but I couldn't find it. I also looked for any information about his parents' pasts and couldn't find anything there either.

Among a lot of quickly made photoshops like this


One genuine photo from Chechnya was found. Maybe it is Yats, maybe not. The story is probably trolling, but entertaining.

and the last off topic.. but really connected..
Shows the real truth about the sudden Migration to Europe..  
Many Refugees with with GO pro cameras and latest Iphones and of combat age...



I already provided before a video with Refugees from "Syria" with just one bag of clothing in one hand and another hand a photo in color of merket in pretty good condition.. as if the photo was never folded and always open through 1,000 km distance.From where he printed that photo if he is a refugee?

I will not be surprised not even slightly if this refugees are a Trojan Horse Americans to infiltrate
ISIS in Europe.. the only question i have is why Europeans allows them to enter without knowing who they are or question why the countries financing so called Rebels in Syria like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and UAE  do not take any refugees.. Why Europe blinding take such dangerous risk , without demanding Middle east to host them.  

Another possible theory is that many of this "Refugees" are in reality European muslins who went to Syria to fight Assad and now returning from the war ,and for Europe is more cheaper that they return by train than by plane. some of them speak good English.

Where's the outrage?

''Sorry, it was us all along! Royal Navy admits one of its submarines damaged an Irish trawler... and not a Russian 'Red October'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3225912/Royal-Navy-admits-submarine-damaged-Irish-trawler.html

Vann...

I really don't like to repeat myself.

The number of refugees that arrived in Europe is over 100,000. How many men does ISIS have if they can send 100,000 to Europe and not even feel it? The entire rebel force (excluding ISIS) in Syria is about 100-150,000. ISIS has maybe 50,000 men out of which "core" is maybe 10,000 and the rest are tribal militias, neo-Naathists etc.

No doubt there are Jihadi supporters (a good percentage of Arab Muslims hold pro-Jihadi sympathies) and even ISIS sleeper cells among them - but your idea that the entire thing was orchestrated by America to flood EUrope with ISIS fighters is ridiculous.

PapaDragon wrote:
Where's the outrage?

''Sorry, it was us all along! Royal Navy admits one of its submarines damaged an Irish trawler... and not a Russian 'Red October'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3225912/Royal-Navy-admits-submarine-damaged-Irish-trawler.html

But they admit long long after the incidents, when the heat has already dwindled down.

Yes, after five months. At that time the "anti-Russia" sentiments has already rooted inside the head of the public, and any counter-proofs only exert limited effects.

Propagamedia ***holes.

The funny games have not ended. Protests by radikals are planned in Odessa over the arrest of Odessa bosses of pravy sektor, Sergei Sternenko and Ruslan Demchuk, and also Odessa "automaidan" boss Evgeniy Rezvushkin. As this is a ukrops report they are playing down the possibility of any protest occuring. http://112.ua/obshchestvo/storonniki-zaderzhannyh-liderov-odesskogo-ps-i-avtomaydana-planiruyut-provesti-miting-zhurnalist-257237.html

Politics in Mariupol today. The Kievsky market burns.

KIEV (Sputnik) – However, Poroshenko claimed that the ceasefire in eastern Ukraine is finally being observed. Poroshenko added, however, that Ukraine needs to fortify its army and that Kiev needs to be prepared “for a breach and defense at any moment.” “If things reach a military or emergency situation, then I will impose a military and emergency situation and there won’t be any changes in elections,” Poroshenko said in regard to changes in the country’s constitution on the decentralization of power.

Kiev and the self-proclaimed republics of Donetsk and Lugansk agreed on the ceasefire in the Belarusian capital of Minsk in mid-February 2015, but have repeatedly accused each other of violating the deal. During a Contact Group meeting on Ukraine reconciliation in late August, the sides to the conflict reaffirmed their commitment to the Minsk ceasefire regime. The commitment came into force on September 1.

“Since midnight, August 29, I can say that for the first time in a year and a half it is quiet on the front. Yesterday, the day before yesterday, and today there has not been a single shot fired,” Poroshenko said.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150909/1026776340.html#ixzz3lFAQpeUA

Khepesh wrote:Seems Purgin said more than RIA Novosti suggested. He is saying that he was released without explanation, and was arrested with no real explanation other than possibly to "protect" him from ukrops DRG. He further says that he cannot find the real reasons for his arrest as they are carefully concealed and nobody will find any explanations. He also does not know where Alexandrov senior is. I am a little surprised at this as I thought he would have been "leant on" as neutrality suggests, but he genuinely seems to be baffled by these events. Maybe when he speaks tomorrow he really will fire a broadside, let's see.....   http://riafan.ru/399120-purgin-menya-vyipustili-bez-obyasneniy-kak-i-zaderzhali/

Interesting...

zg18 wrote:Ukrainian military started to deploy WW2 ZiS-3 gun mod. 1942

Is that all they have? How is it different from what they've been using?

Hi gents, ive been on holiday for a week, any important developments to note?

Cowboy's daughter wrote:

zg18 wrote:Ukrainian military started to deploy WW2 ZiS-3 gun mod. 1942

Is that all they have? How is it different from what they've been using?

Aren't old anti-tank guns pretty poor when used as artillery? I've read somewhere that previously used Ukrainan anti-tank guns were of little use during the fighting around Feb. Although what I'm aware Ukraine is running out of actual artillery pieces due to barrel wear.

sepheronx wrote:http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150909/1026788388.html

By doing what you old hag? By going to nuclear war with Russia?

Maybe the national inquirer is right. Maybe she had strokes.  Cause there clearly is brain damage involved with that woman.

she is a evil bitch ... if she gets elected president she will start WW3 mark my words ... her whoops of joy at Gadaffi being murdered live on TV was one of the most disgusting things I have ever witnessed an absolute boot of a woman

VARGR198 wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:

zg18 wrote:Ukrainian military started to deploy WW2 ZiS-3 gun mod. 1942

Is that all they have? How is it different from what they've been using?

Aren't old anti-tank guns pretty poor when used as artillery? I've read somewhere that previously used Ukrainan anti-tank guns were of little use during the fighting around Feb. Although what I'm aware Ukraine is running out of actual artillery pieces due to barrel wear.

the Zis-3 was a divisional gun used as both anti tank and as artillery it had a range of 8 1/4 miles and it had a great rate of fire around 20 - 25 rounds per minute ... quite simply the against a D-30 it would be pounded into submission from a position of safety for the D-30 crew

Godric wrote:

sepheronx wrote:http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150909/1026788388.html

By doing what you old hag? By going to nuclear war with Russia?

Maybe the national inquirer is right. Maybe she had strokes.  Cause there clearly is brain damage involved with that woman.

she is a evil bitch ... if she gets elected president she will start WW3 mark my words ... her whoops of joy at Gadaffi being murdered live on TV was one of the most disgusting things I have ever witnessed an absolute boot of a woman

She likes to 'talk tough' because she survived sniper fire in Bosnia. Pathological liars, cretins, charlatans, and other forms of snake-oil salesman...err saleswomen gravitate towards the hardliner position.

Godric wrote:

sepheronx wrote:http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150909/1026788388.html

By doing what you old hag? By going to nuclear war with Russia?

Maybe the national inquirer is right. Maybe she had strokes.  Cause there clearly is brain damage involved with that woman.

she is a evil bitch ... if she gets elected president she will start WW3 mark my words ... her whoops of joy at Gadaffi being murdered live on TV was one of the most disgusting things I have ever witnessed an absolute boot of a woman

Clinton is the personification of pure evil, nothing good will happen if she becomes president, not for the US or the rest of the world, she is just too corrupt and thinks she is above the law, be it domestic or international law.

Sort of quoted from somewhere or other today, I forget exactly where or who, perhaps some striped furry creatures, a grumpy cat, something something....

No word from Purgin today. There is a call for Donbassovtsy to be at the State Administration building at midday on Saturday and for the leadership of DNR to come out and explain what they see as our common future. It is noted that there has been total silence from Zakharchenko, and while Pushilin has made two statements, the first one was a deliberate lie about Purgin not being under arrest in the basement, the second, from today, is very defensive, nothing about the situation, but all about how hard working and patriotic he is. That he even feels the need to make such a statement shows he is under pressure. The media outlets and the official statements show no sign of any discontent, but there is. People want to know they have not been fighting for oligarchs and that the deaths have not been in vain. That people say such things is a sign of a failure of leadership, and further increases the idea that Zakharchenko is essentially paralised in what to do. One of the subtexts being that either Donbass is responsible for it own affairs and the leadership are real leaders, or Donbass is simply a pawn. People do not like to think they are pawns. To remind, Purgin was involved in the movement to create DNR from the very beginning, others who now call the shots are newcomers. Photo shows Purgin in 2006.

Edit: I forgot, some aparatchik appeared today, and he must be a Star Trek fan, as what he said about the Purgin affair was essentially, "The needs of the many outway the needs of the few". That can be interpreted in several ways, it can even be turned completely around. Smoke and mirrors.

Extracted from today's OSCE report. Clearly stuff heading West is not a normal sight for them. Probably broken on the way to repair.

In government-controlled Donetsk region, the SMM observed considerable movement of military hardware. At government-controlled Konstantynopil (57km west of Donetsk) the SMM observed one tank (T-64) moving westwards. Near government-controlled Iskra (90km west of Donetsk) the SMM observed eight fuel trucks moving eastwards followed by an armoured military truck with 12 military personnel and five IFVs (four BMP-1 and one BMP-2) on flat-beds heading west. While in government-controlled Havrylivka (95km west of Donetsk) the SMM observed one infantry fighting vehicle (IFV, BMP-1) with an antitank guided missile (FAGOT) mounted, travelling west. Between government-controlled Havrylivka (95km west of Donetsk) and Donetsk, the SMM observed two empty flat-beds heading east. In government-controlled Bahatyr the SMM observed one BMP-1 and one BMP-2 (64km west of Donetsk) on flat-beds heading west.

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/181106