Russian special military operation in Ukraine #6

Scorpius wrote:For everyone who cried that the sky over the DPR is not protected: the DPR reports the downing of at least 15 tochka-U missiles over the DPR since the beginning of the special operation.
https://news.ru/world/pushilin-za-vremya-specoperacii-dnr-sbili-bolee-15-raket-tochka-u/

The thing with huge honking ballistic missiles is that you don't simply "down them" and the threat's gone just like that.

They carry substantial mass and fly at tremendous speed. Even if you manage to neutralize the warhead with a successful terminal interception, there's still going to be a big bang when all that junk hits the ground, and that will be in the generally intended target area due to basic kinematics.

Reminds me of that old clip, was it a Rose interview? When Putin let out a hearty laugh when the US "missile shield" to be deployed in eastern NATO states "against Iran" was brought up.

No, it was about shooting down missiles during ascent, because that's ideal. Iranian missiles (even if they had any that could reach that far, they don't save for their small space rockets, which cannot deliver a big payload, and they don't even have nuclear ditto anyway) would have been well into a hypersonic ballistic trajectory by the point they came within range of those US systems, and thus more or less unstoppable.(1)

Putin correctly deduced that it was all a sham, had zilch to do with Iran and all about actually trying to nip Russian strategic deterrence in the bud, ie during initial ascent.

(1) Unless you just vaporize them completely in the air. And yeah, guess why the hypersonic terminal defense systems in both the US and USSR were armed with nuclear warheads of their own. Gazelle, Sprint etc.

It's getting exhausting to sort through all the BS online about Ukraine's imminent victory.

nomadski wrote:@ Vann7

".....almost no drones support.
- no airforce taking advantage of ukraine fixed positions in donetsk.
- no incendiary ammo to poison them.
- almost no kamikazi drones ,
-no electronic warfare to jam those stinger missile attacks.
-no using decoys , false targets ,to force ukraine use all their missiles on fake targets........"


There are drones . Shown many times in surveyor role  .Their tactics does not rely on mass drone attacks . Some troops are in civilian areas , not in the open . So carpet bombing can not be done . Their new stingers , may be hardened against jamming . Area jamming may take a lot of power and equipment . They are using decoys .

It took two weeks to reduce population of Kiev from 4 million to 2 million . Is anyone counting the number leaving on a daily basis ? From different towns ? And what happens , when the refugee flow stops ? Even when the humanity corridors are open ? What are we to conclude then ? Time to close the gates ? The same thinking about UA troops in cauldron . How many surrendering out of the total ? What happens , when the flow stops ? Time to close the gates ? Anyone keeping records ?

I am thinking there is some sort of intentional sabotage taking place of the Russian special operation that occurs within the Russian armed forces.

Keep in mind that officially 2% of Russia's population are ethnic Ukrainians, plus there are some "Russians" who are in reality partially of Ukrainian origin.

There are especially many such people is some parts of Russia, for example in the Kuban, some portions of Siberia and the Russian Far East.


Look at how flawless the Russian military operates to support that disgusting Alawite tyrant in Syria, but when it comes to fighting for real Russian interests, the Russian armed forces are suddenly deficient.

Arkanghelsk wrote:

mavaff wrote:

Arkanghelsk wrote:

In any case primary responsibility for covering Russian troops is Buk, Tor, and other mobile SAMS , S300V has not been seen in Ukraine

ok but still I do not understand why Buks and Pantsirs did not take out all TB2 from the very first days, I have seen too many videos of TB2 hitting targets: these should have been downed right away.

The resulting casualties of TB2 strikes are in the 1% to 5% of all total casualties and this is very generous estimate

Recall these drones are killing tanks and armored vehicles so yes impact is great as you are wiping out a crew , but at the same time,  in terms of numbers it is an trivial factor.

More important is the recon of enemy artillery, to eliminate the possibility of heavy destruction of troops

NATO, would have a much harder time countering these munitions, such as drones and missiles,

Which we see in 1 impact hundreds of enemy wiped out in such strikes, against an enemy with superior AD to any NATO state today, and in fact was for the most part suppressed by the VKS

The occasional manpads hits were seen in Syria, and even then, SU25 eats manpads for lunch and lands with engine hanging out,

So in terms of performance, Russia does not lag behind in employing successful tactics and strategy to defeat a heavily armed and relatively well trained and high morale enemy.

NATO, or the West, have no AD to that of Ukraine. In 1991, despite the oppressive superiority of allies, Iraq was able to fire his Scud B on Israel and the Saudi. Practically without great camouflage, practically at the rich limit close to the borders towards the west and south. Nothing stop her.

Iran was able to shoot 8 or 12 ractures before yesterday. Nothing stop her. If I look at the protection of NATO of its bases and airfields in Poland, Germany, etc. Also from US bases, I do not even see a close range system and if something like rapier or MIM23 Hawk or as with the Saudis an old Crotale French system.

I'll take a look to Iran, has the 4 or 5 such near-range systems and 4 or 5 middle range systems. Like bukME copies or its own bavar 373 etc.

If the other 4 to 5 systems for medium or long distances and heights apart, this is an AD network that deserves the name. NATO would have to clean this first. See Serbia, that never succeeded. It was always active all the time and has almost completely prevented ground close support. That would fall completely away from Russia. Russia has a qualitative and quantitative Air Force and a comprehensive AD network with systems such as TorM1/2 and PanzirM1/2, which NATO does not even have in the approach. Also Israel not.

Therefore, I hope that the Torm2 from the first few days, which was abandoned undamaged, not like the Torm2 what Saturday was abandoned (completely slaughtered), not falling in NATO hands!

The Toschka was probably damaged by a TORM2 and has landed through its mass still in the target but stop not as planned, but a large part of the explosion already took place in the air.

The TB2 drones have no effect on the Russian troops. No one is in panic like the Armenians 2020. There, there were practically zero protection. SA-8AM failed almost completely despite their shooting numbers, there was no security in the hinterland of their own troops. Only with the TorM2E mounted on trucks, which was pushed south, the advance was stopped and a trial has been made possible. If the TorM2E has always been in Berg Karabakh, that would be very different.

diabetus wrote:It's getting exhausting to sort through all the BS online about Ukraine's imminent victory.

It's still about 10 Ukrainian-affiliated combatants per 1 Russian-affiliated ditto casualty wise, from what I see. But then again Russia has a ridiculous advantage in available firepower. But then again, Russia is actually at a numerical disadvantage on the whole, so the Ukrainians are evidently more inclined to employ the cannon fodder thing.

I think the main reason certain folks keep up some kind of spirit is actually the mercy of the Russians. Not saying this to sound like some kind of douche, but think about it: If the Russians were as raw and evil as has been suggested, why haven't they simply levelled the encircled towns and killed thousands in minutes? They *can* do it at a moment's notice.

The answer, I believe, is to be found in what the Russians said from the beginning.

Arkanghelsk wrote:Azerbaijan war in NGK is incomparable to Operation Z

Anyone with a brain sees that, some propaganda victories of TB2 and Harop against a militia is not comparable to VSU and its 400,000 plus sized army with thousands of anti aircraft vehicles and sites

VKS already eliminated the bulk of long range AD so I don't know why you mention s300, those did not work since day 1

Azerbaijan could not capture NGK, while Russian offensive controls 40% of Ukrainian territory

You compare apples to oranges and look like an idiot doing it

don't know what the heck you are smoking dude..

in the armenian conflict  it was the russian army and armenia the ones that lost that war.

azerbaijan destroyed..

-2x modernized s-300s with their radars.
-several pantirs..
-seveal buks
-nearly all stela air defenses in the front line.
- one iskander transport destroyed.
- russia supplied electronic warfare units to armenia.

they even shot down a russian hellicopter flying over armenian airspace.  

and if that wasn't humiliating enough , russia failed to help armenia hold territory , the
azeris over run armenian positions , even with russia helping them with air defenses and logistics, how embarrasing.  

and on top of all that.. the negotiate peace ,was done based on azerbajan demands..
because the losers can demand anything, so the war stopped , because russia pressure armenia
to give up a lot of lands to azerbajan , in change for peace..  

in that conflict armenia and russia lost.. the only winners were azerbaijan and turkey.
so get your facts right , before spreading bullshit.

about s-400s world records taking down outdated soviet era planes, is meaningless ,
those defenses will not be facing mig-29 in a fight with NATO ,but instead stealth f-35
that will not be seen as 150km at all , but more like 50km with luck. and in such distance it will be too late ,because the plane will launch a missile. and as as israel have shown
in syria those s-400s are next to  useless to counter advanced air raid tactics ,with customized f-16s, with heavy electronic jamming and loitering munition.  

if s-400s cant  protect their soldiers operating in the ground..in ukraine  with the constant attacks by drones on their positions ,then they are useless.  because s-400s are advertised as taking drones too ,and those baykatar drones are not small by any degree ,they are big planes.. that should be taken down ,because just one of them , can completely destroy a command post of russia, or a fuel depot , or a nuclear reactor. creating significant damages to the operations of russian army.. like for example fuel problems..  so this is not "Trivial" as you claim ,is a big deal , that russia right next on its borders. with all the air defenses in the world , can completely achieve air supremacy from a third world country like ukraine.. but more like air contested. since every day , russian military is hit by those drones that always fly in the airspace of ukraine.

this weakness of the russian army vs drones, does not look like a big deal , because ukraine have very few drones. but had russia was fighting a major  military power , like US ,israel, japan ,uk or france ,germany.. it will have been completely destroyed all those convoys of Russia in ukraine. because nato major powers do have much more drones and superior airforce support.



This is not "trivial" russia military is a paper tiger army versus strong drone support to the enemy.



failed in armenia , and now being punished again in ukraine. just using turkey drones support.

NATO drones can fly higher , are more stealthy and can carry more missiles per drone, and more importantly they have 1000x times more drones that the ones ukraine can use , so a lot more more damage they can cause to russian army positions. Russian army will not have a chance to win a war in ukraine or even invade , had ukraine had all the overwhelming drones support ,that US , UK ,israel or france can deploy in any battle field.  

Russia needs to go to the drawing board and develop energy base defenses , like  mobile laser defenses or rail guns or electronic warfare to properly defend their military. Right now the russian army is facing problems with a third world nation like ukraine.. the difficulty that russia will face ,
if it was a major nato power or israel ,will be 100x times worse.. because all the more powerful air support hardware they have.

Current map



We continue to see big profits in the south, go north and north east. Presumably, the units have come very further today at this front.

In my view, there must not be no ceasefire in the coming days!

Only when the troops in the north and west of Kyiv continue to move south and meet with the troops from the south.

The yellow line on the map in the west, only when this was reached from North to South and that completely, only then there should be a ceasefire. What would be unoccupied within still, does not matter as abroad completely truncated. Therefore, forced to stabilize. But the yellow line must be reached!

Sujoy wrote:Biden is sending his NSA to Rome to meet with China's Yang Jiechi. Biden’s imperative to win Chinese cooperation on his sanctions against Russia has armed China with crucial leverage. Like a double-edged sword, it will wield that leverage to extract U.S. and Russian concessions.

BS. China simply isn't going to back off on its support of Russia.

Ignore that they have a strategic partnership and boil it down to the absolute basics - When its Chinas turn to get stuck in (and take down the secessionists in Taiwan) they want Russia in their corner.

Murkan deep staters are idiots if they can't understand this, but they are desperate to save their pet Ukro regime and the stress is making them sloppy and causing forced errors.

The more advanced Turkish Akinci combat drone is supposedly around six times as powerful as the Bayraktar.

It could be very terrifying if it shows up on a battlefield.


Drones clearly helped the Azeris against the Armenians.

That was back in late 2020.

There was time to learn.

Odin of Ossetia wrote:I do not comprehend the sympathy and help they get from so much of the rest of the world.

Its fake sympathy, nothing but hysterical virtue signalling from idiots, delivered on command as the social media companies press their "trigger the plebs" button.

This "sympathy" is limited to the dumb herd animals of the Western corruption zone. Once this police action is done and Ukraine finally surrenders, this "sympathy" will dissipate like dew in the morning sun

Isos wrote:    

What a dumb people !! Like russia would run out of ant air missiles against Ukraine hahahahaha

They use more ammo in exercices than in this "war".



Demetri・FT
@Dimi
· 42m
#NewChinaRussiaScoop – US told allies that Russia requested 5 types of military gear from China, including #SurfaceToAirMissiles. Also #drones, armored vehicles, logistics vehicles & intelligence-related equipment. US did not provide underlying intelligence in cables to allies. twitter.com/Dimi/status/15

But we got morons here and everywhere honestly who just take words that came straight from the ass of an enemy, and think its true.  No evidence, no nothing.  Just nonsense honestly.  And it is believed.

This is all about insulting Russia that they cannot produce anything and require imports.  None of the claims are even true nor do they make sense - Russia is using 15% of its entire capabilities in this conflict yet they run out?

Too many retards on this planet.

China outright denied it saying they got no request. Russia denied it. Yet it came from the US, whom is an enemy of Russia, with no proof what so ever. No Russian documents or Chinese Documents. Seriously, do people just take words randomly said as truth?

Odin of Ossetia wrote:disgusting Alawite tyrant in Syria

Note to self: never up-vote this pollack clown again.

Vann7 wrote:

Arkanghelsk wrote:Azerbaijan war in NGK is incomparable to Operation Z

Anyone with a brain sees that, some propaganda victories of TB2 and Harop against a militia is not comparable to VSU and its 400,000 plus sized army with thousands of anti aircraft vehicles and sites

VKS already eliminated the bulk of long range AD so I don't know why you mention s300, those did not work since day 1

Azerbaijan could not capture NGK, while Russian offensive controls 40% of Ukrainian territory

You compare apples to oranges and look like an idiot doing it

don't know what the heck you are smoking dude..

in the armenian conflict  it was the russian army and armenia the ones that lost that war.

azerbaijan destroyed..

-2x modernized s-300s with their radars.
-several pantirs..
-seveal buks
-nearly all stela air defenses in the front line.
- one iskander transport destroyed.
- russia supplied electronic warfare units to armenia.

they even shot down a russian hellicopter flying over armenian airspace.  

and if that wasn't humiliating enough , russia failed to help armenia hold territory , the
azeris over run armenian positions , even with russia helping them with air defenses and logistics, how embarrasing.  

and on top of all that.. the negotiate peace ,was done based on azerbajan demands..
because the losers can demand anything, so the war stopped , because russia pressure armenia
to give up a lot of lands to azerbajan , in change for peace..  

in that conflict armenia and russia lost.. the only winners were azerbaijan and turkey.
so get your facts right , before spreading bullshit.

about s-400s world records taking down outdated soviet era planes, is meaningless ,
those defenses will not be facing mig-29 in a fight with NATO ,but instead stealth f-35
that will not be seen as 150km at all , but more like 50km with luck. and in such distance it will be too late ,because the plane will launch a missile. and as as israel have shown
in syria those s-400s are next to  useless to counter advanced air raid tactics ,with customized f-16s, with heavy electronic jamming and loitering munition.  

if s-400s cant  protect their soldiers operating in the ground..in ukraine  with the constant attacks by drones on their positions ,then they are useless.  because s-400s are advertised as taking drones too ,and those baykatar drones are not small by any degree ,they are big planes.. that should be taken down ,because just one of them , can completely destroy a command post of russia, or a fuel depot , or a nuclear reactor. creating significant damages to the operations of russian army.. like for example fuel problems..  so this is not "Trivial" as you claim ,is a big deal , that russia right next on its borders. with all the air defenses in the world , can completely achieve air supremacy from a third world country like ukraine.. but more like air contested. since every day , russian military is hit by those drones that always fly in the airspace of ukraine.

this weakness of the russian army vs drones, does not look like a big deal , because ukraine have very few drones. but had russia was fighting a major  military power , like US ,israel, japan ,uk or france ,germany.. it will have been completely destroyed all those convoys of Russia in ukraine. because nato major powers do have much more drones and superior airforce support.



This is not "trivial" russia military is a paper tiger army versus strong drone support to the enemy.



failed in armenia , and now being punished again in ukraine. just using turkey drones support.

NATO drones can fly higher , are more stealthy and can carry more missiles per drone,so a lot more more damage they can cause to russian army positions.

The Armenian S-300P was not protected by TorM2 or PanzirM

There is a destruction of an active! Panzirm system. The 2019 was overstate suppressed by the IDF. One!


Russia only familiarizes TorM2 anyway, see Syria. See reviews from army with the experiences from Syria.
A TorM2 has never been monitored and destroyed in active mode. Each goal rocket meets his goal, no matter how big the goal is to be 98%. Proof! The IDF has tried exercises. It takes 16 Delias and several drones only one! Off. (Griechenland)

The IDF special troops have always tried the Russian system azutestestest at the Syrian Air Force Base. With small trading drones, with your own, etc.(Secret Attacks)

I hope Russia immediately moves the ARTIC version as the main tandem in mass production. Front old TorM for flying TB2 drones, rear small missiles for their rockets and the delias, etc.
Thus 8 (16) plus 16 (32) Rockets!
In the effectiveness, it is difficult to overstate in the future.

Saw this at Saker's site, it is such a perfect representation of the West's mind-boggling arrogance



The West will pay for its sins, that cannot be avoided now, and theirs are the worst of all. As per wiki:

Pride (superbia) is considered the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins on almost every list. It is the most angelical or demonic out of them.[40] It is also thought to be the source of the other capital sins, known as hubris (from Ancient Greek ὕβρις) or futility. It is identified as dangerously corrupt selfishness, the putting of one's own desires, urges, wants, and whims before the welfare of other people.

LMFS wrote:Saw this at Saker's site, it is such a perfect representation of the West's mind-boggling arrogance



The West will pay for its sins, that cannot be avoided now, and theirs are the worst of all. As per wiki:

Pride (superbia) is considered the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins on almost every list. It is the most angelical or demonic out of them.[40] It is also thought to be the source of the other capital sins, known as hubris (from Ancient Greek ὕβρις) or futility. It is identified as dangerously corrupt selfishness, the putting of one's own desires, urges, wants, and whims before the welfare of other people.

And it also applies so much to the Alawite tyrants in Syria.

Russia is supporting the wrong side in Syria.

very complete briefing today, covers everything from the Donetsk missile massacre to the up to the last minute developments

https://guerraenucrania.wordpress.com/2022/03/14/parte-de-guerra-14-03-2022/

Vann7 wrote:

Arkanghelsk wrote:Azerbaijan war in NGK is incomparable to Operation Z

Anyone with a brain sees that, some propaganda victories of TB2 and Harop against a militia is not comparable to VSU and its 400,000 plus sized army with thousands of anti aircraft vehicles and sites

VKS already eliminated the bulk of long range AD so I don't know why you mention s300, those did not work since day 1

Azerbaijan could not capture NGK, while Russian offensive controls 40% of Ukrainian territory

You compare apples to oranges and look like an idiot doing it

don't know what the heck you are smoking dude..

in the armenian conflict  it was the russian army and armenia the ones that lost that war.

...BLA BLA BLA...

You are such a MOR*N...please shut the **** up! It's a disgrace to read this shitty shit. If I only see your posting my mood and IQ drops a few points.

Your super duper Bayraktar WUNDERWAFFE has no importance in this whole fuc*ing conflict. Most losses on russian side are due to artillery strikes and ambushes with ATGM.

Ukraine is using every video found with a drone strike fake it and then they claim Russia has lost 30000 tanks due to Bayraktar strikes. Only idiots are believing this shit!!! And because Russia has lost 500 planes, 30000 tanks and millions of soldiers, the glorious Ukrainian army stands at the gates of Moscow and demands Putin's surrender...SLAVA SHITHOLE!

I sincerely apologize for the posting but I was really pissed off!

Yes, but the propaganda in western media is unprecedented.
Honestly, it is hard to blame if someone believes it. This is not the normal level we are all used to. I'm not talking about US media only - where it's a norm - but every western county basically, even the moderates.

Today the "request for urgent help from China" was the mainline.
Story is also emerging that Russia is backing off from initial demands and "no more requests removal of Kievan junta".

Mr. Kadyrov seems to disagree though, from his TG

In the video, we are in Gostomel. The other day we were about 20 km away from you, and at the moment even closer, and guess how close we got?

You can relax for a moment, because you won't have to look for us - we'll find you." You'd better give up and stand by us, as I've suggested more than once, or you'll end up dead. The offer is still valid. But not for long

kvs wrote:

Isos wrote:    

What a dumb people !! Like russia would run out of ant air missiles against Ukraine hahahahaha

They use more ammo in exercices than in this "war".



Demetri・FT
@Dimi
· 42m
#NewChinaRussiaScoop – US told allies that Russia requested 5 types of military gear from China, including #SurfaceToAirMissiles. Also #drones, armored vehicles, logistics vehicles & intelligence-related equipment. US did not provide underlying intelligence in cables to allies. twitter.com/Dimi/status/15

The morons in the US regime have also declared that they have destroyed the Russian economy.   It is now one big propaganda
bubble in the west just like in Kiev.

That is the thing - this is just constant bullshit after bullshit of news.  America has claimed: Russias economy is in tatters and is already destroyed.  That turned out to be false.  Russian made weapons are not working (seems their AD is working far better than wests (as proof by the drone incident) and their missiles hit right on target right near the Polish border at the surprise of the west). Claimed the world sanctioned them (when it is only 11% of the world sanctioned them and the rest are still more than willing to import and export to/from russia).  Claimed Russian soldiers are demoralized and losing in Ukraine (Massive lie when Russian forces were smaller than Ukraines and still managed to encircle Ukraines biggest cities and forces and gained 40% of the country with such a small force). Claimed Putin is losing support (when in reality, his support has grown during this conflict from low 60% to now over 70%).

They have not been right about a single thing.  And the reason for it is to create a narrative and try to spread it.  They also believe that the other countries actually take it at face value and use it to try and force China to do stuff.  Its funny because China denied the claims from the US and so did Russia yet they go and demand from China not to do it.  Why? Because the US will use it as an attempt to say "see, look, we forced China's arm.  They didn't sell weapons to the Russians because we told them not to!".

Vann7 wrote:
Russia needs to go to the drawing board and develop energy base defenses , like  mobile laser defenses or rail guns or electronic warfare to properly defend their military. Right now the russian army is facing problems with a third world nation like ukraine.. the difficulty that russia will face ,
if it was a major nato power or israel ,will be 100x times worse.. because all the more powerful air support hardware   they have.  

Can't use decoys against a multi spectral IADS.

The NEBO radars will distinguish between the decoys/real targets, and the BUK/TOR/Pantsir will light up only if it makes sense.


Beyond those the attack airplanes will swipe the sky, searching and destroying the drones.


At the same time they will triangulate the emitters/control points, and attack them as well.
Or just to jam the signals.

Each step on its own effective, and doesn't depend on each other.

OTher side, the control point of the drone, the connection, the drone itself, and the invisibility/decoy begaviour is a chain, if you miss one element then the tactics loose its effectiveness.

Let me summarize the things from the EU MSM.

Russia lost.
Putin is dying.
Shoigu is his last pale, but there are a tons of Brute sided by.
Half of FSB/GRU main staff is dead/jailed/custodiezed/home arrested. You can vote.
Half of general staff is dead. Generals are dying like sheep in slaughterhouse. Assisted by the colonels. No marshalls. Yet!
Putin is dying, still there is a Hague tribunal ahead of him.
Everybody who dares to speak his position, that is not-so-B&W, is "idiot", "Putins agent", "Olgino troll".
Last spotted "idiot" is Coehlo. The writer, you know.
Russian shoot a friendly&peacefull NATO owned curort in Yavorovo to make a political message. Some security guards died there, among with brave guard dogs. Maybe some few military. More than few. Well, some of ... No foreign mercs there, never, ever, STFU.
Russian generals stole the most of modernization directed cash. Half a trillion $. But that is for now only, thet will steal a whole trillion by tomorrow latest.
Doneck Tochka?
Non existing.
Evil Russkies shooted at Kiev city, there is a CCTV proving that, bad, bad Putin, you will die in Hague, considering that you are dying at the very moment. Death is imminent, anyway.
Even more evil Russkies are closing the evacuation corridors, shoot at the refugees, and even if there was a Tochka on Donetsk - Ruskies shoot it.
Day as usual, nothing fancy. Carry on.